Lost Bear. Want to help others(VIDEO added PAGE 4)

[TURKEYFOOTGIRL]

Arrow was soaked in blood. I just felt the blood was dark. Zero smell or gut material.

[Daz]

Look at this and tell me where you think you hit:

 http://www.ballistics101.com/images/bear_images/bearshotplacement.pdf

[Matty]

Hey Daz. That's real cool! And helpful!

[TURKEYFOOTGIRL]

Nice packet Daz! I would say between 4th and 5th rib from back halfway up. Basically straight up the backside of the offside leg, little light color fur spot. Which shows LIVER.  Who made up this middle of the middle thing?

[Daz]

I have no idea where the "middle of the middle" came from.
I helped out in a Northern SK bear camp growing up, and "leg forward a touch above/behind the elbow" was preached for archers (shoulder break for "the other" hunters").

I tracked more than one bear that had been shot too far back by folks who didn't understand anatomy, or got thrown by the homogenous coat and just "shot at black".

[awbowman]

Daz, that's way different than the previous picture I took off TG thread and GREAT info.  IF I ever have an urge to shoot a bear, it will be tucked in the crease and he will be slightly quartering away if I can help it.

[Etter]

Sorry to hear your story. Ive killed a few bears, lost a few too, and been down dozens of bear blood trails.  I would have thought you had made a perfect hit there.

Instances like these are why Im such a believer in big two blade broadheads lik the simmons tree shark. I figure the bigger the head, the more arteries cut, and better blood trail as well. The Ashby studies want to force smaller single bevel heads on us to penetrate heavy bone but our odds are far greater to hit liver, gut, or any other place than the shoulder bone. And I seriously doubt my recurves will push anything through a bon as heavy as a bears.

Again, sorry you lost him. I dont think you did anything wrong there.

[Homebru]

Originally posted by TURKEYFOOTGIRL:
Who made up this middle of the middle thing?

Well, I'm no expert but, if you measure tip of nose to tip of tail (what tail?), "the goodies" are closed to "middle of the middle".  Unfortunately, tip of nose to tip of tail isn't how I look at a bear.  I do everything I can to ignore the head of any animal (unless I'm trying to shoot it in the head).  

I've also heard a very well known archer / hunter who insists that they shoot wild hogs "right in the middle" but that doesn't make sense to me, either.

homebru

[JimB]

I have to say,seeing those pictures,I would have called that a dead bear.Sometimes stuff just happens.I once shot an antelope right behind the front leg and was later shocked to find that I only got liver.It was recovered,easily.I later shared bear camp with a pathologist and picked his brain about a lot of this stuff.He pointed out there was a big difference in the position of the rear of the lungs between inhale and exhale.It's the only explanation that made sense to me.

[kat]

Thanks for sharing this. I would have thought that was the money shot too.
After reading the posts on here, it looks like close in by the shoulder would be the ticket.
Good for you for bringing this up.

[dringge]

I too have lost a nice bear but wasnt too happy with my shot. I would have been pleased with myself for the shot placement on this bear.

[Daz]

Unlike ungulates, there can be some big differences in body dimension ratios bear to bear. Older boars will have no neck and carry a lot more weight at shoulders, whereas sows often carry less weight at shoulders and more at the back end.

All of these things can add up to difficulty in the moment ascertaining vitals position, especially on a black bear. We found that there seemed to be less difficulty for hunters placing the shot well on lighter color phase bears (blondes and light cinnamons).

I was stalking a big cinnamon boar near day's end last week, and at one point had to double check, because his body position presented one way, but it didn't seem "right". If i had followed through on shot execution where he was at the aiming point my brain said was there it would not have ended well.

Because hunters don't see bears as often as ungulates, we don't seem to be able to recognize the form as quickly. It's almost as if the novelty of the form throws us off.

[stickandstring]

Oh boy, what tuff luck. Your shot was exactly where you were aiming. Interesting feedback and analysis by the group.

[Tim Finley]

If the bear was looking towards you and he had his body twisted you got guts. My wife did the same thing but we found her bear, we ran it down and another arrow finished it. I helped run a bear camp in northern Manitoba for many years, well over 300 bears were shot in the time I was there. I seen a lot of different and sometimes crazy hits, we once found half an ear  laying by the bait and the hunter claimed he had a perfect hit. Bears can be deceiving on where shot placement should be and when you shoot from a tree stand it becomes more difficult because of the shape of the rib cage . I would say the height of the shot you made is perfect especially from a tree stand, but you are to far back for the slight angle he is giving you. We also found out one other thing that helped on marginal hits  we switched to multi blade heads. You may cut something that a 2 blade will miss and penetration isn't any different.

[TURKEYFOOTGIRL]

This shot is interesting but it looks like lungs and liver gone.

[TURKEYFOOTGIRL]

This image looks like almost exactly my shot.  Should scoot forward 4 to 6 inches

[Lady Frost]

Thanks for posting this!  Very informative.  Taking notes...

Definitely saving that bear shot placement guide.  Thanks Daz

[Msturm]

Great thread!  Very Helpful!

[KSdan]

TURKEY- I was a little confused on your last post with the pic of the live bear. . . ??  Are you saying the red dot is where you DID HIT- or is the red dot where you SHOULD HAVE HIT?

The position of the off leg really reveals a dramatic shift in the vitals.  I know when shooting other animals we are often looking for that line to the off shoulder.

Great thread and info as mentioned.  Thanks for helping educate us.

Dan in KS

[TURKEYFOOTGIRL]

Its justva image i found on the web. I dont think my point of impact was far off from that red dot. Maybe back a touch but well within the circle. When i was at full draw on the bear he was quartering away decent then just before release he turned broadside. Maybe still slightly quartering.
 Next time i will aim towards the front of the circle in that picture.