Classic vs. Whisper

[Vesty]

I believe the limb design is the same on these bows. Has anyone noticed a speed difference between them due to the reverse handle design on the Whisper.

[JR Belk]

there's no speed difference that I've seen. The only difference would be shooter related, torque on one vs. the other. Steve's ASL models are really close to each other in the speed department. A string follow Shelton only loses about 3fps compared to a backset model like the Classic. Steve tests his bows extensively in the areas of speed and cast. The Whisper is still my favorite model, but I'm waiting on a Ramer, the new string follow version of the whisper.

[Gordon Jabben]

I have a couple of both.  No speed difference with the same brace height but most people shoot a high brace on the whisper and that will slow it down.

[Ray Lyon]

The Shelton is the favorite of the three between classic, Shelton, and whisper. I currently have the Shelton, but have shot all three side by side. I really didn't notice any difference in the speed in shooting the three bows of like poundage in steve's shop. I was almost the first guinea pig for the 'Ramer' (no name then), but liked the Shelton too much.

[Roger Norris]

I have never owned a Classic, but have shot them. As of right now, I have landed on the Whisper as my go to longbow. I'm very interested in the Ramer, if Steve has one in green glass at Compton.....it may find a home    

[Gil Verwey]

I have shot the Classic and own a Whisper and Shelton. I did not notice any difference in speed between the three. I did notice I shot the Shelton much better than the other two.

I was very surprised that I would like the grip on the Whisper. I got the bow in a trade and did like it very much.

Like Ray said the Shelton is my favorite. I don't think you would be making a mistake with any of the NM bows mentioned.

[JR Belk]

Originally posted by Gordon Jabben:
I have a couple of both.  No speed difference with the same brace height but most people shoot a high brace on the whisper and that will slow it down.

Steve's chimed in on this before. The Whisper should be over a 7" brace. It's the reverse handle design that makes it that way. You don't have the handle to measure from. If you have a 6 1/4" brace on a Classic and take the handle out of the equation, it's going to be over 7". A lot of guys are trying to run a similar brace height that they have on their standard ASL and it's too low. It also robs performance since the limbs have less preload and actual lower draw weight.

[Ray Lyon]

By the way, Steve makes a simple, accurate,  tool look stunning.

 

 

[WESTBROOK]

Bow looks kinda familiar Ray    

 

 

[Gordon Jabben]

JR, I hate to disagree but I have found that the greater the brace height on the Whisper the slower it gets. I guess that would be true on all bows.

[Ray Lyon]

Great minds think alike Eric.

[JR Belk]

Originally posted by Gordon Jabben:
JR, I hate to disagree but I have found that the greater the brace height on the Whisper the slower it gets. I guess that would be true on all bows.

You don't have to agree with me, that's coming from the man that made the bow. If you get good tune at that low of a brace height, good for you. It's just a fact that your limbs have no load on them. Chrono an arrow tuned for the bow at the correct brace and you'll see what I mean.

[WESTBROOK]

JR,

You are right in that you are loosing some preload in the limbs by dropping the brace height. But not near as much as going from a Classic limb to a Shelton limb and look how little that effects performance.

The big loss by keeping the same theoretical brace height when going to a whisper is in the power stroke. My Classics have 1-5/8 to 1-3/4" of handle wood (not counting the limb lams)taking that much from the power stroke is a huge loss in performance, much more than the 1 pound (max) of draw weight gained with a higher brace height.

I draw 29", the power stroke on my bow is 20-3/4", flip 1-3/4" of wood around to the front of the bow and that drops to 19" and that is huge loss of energy going into the arrow. About like comparing a 50 @ 28 bow to a 49 @ 29-3/4...I'll take the later.

A number of people over the years have tried running an above normal brace height on their bows to make it more forgiving...and it works...but they all loose speed....Fact

[Gordon Jabben]

Jr, I guess the results may vary.  

[ron w]

I like a higher brace on all my bows......don't care how fast it is.....just like it that way. I think silent is more important that speed and my Whispers are called that for a reason!!

[JR Belk]

Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
JR,

You are right in that you are loosing some preload in the limbs by dropping the brace height. But not near as much as going from a Classic limb to a Shelton limb and look how little that effects performance.

The big loss by keeping the same theoretical brace height when going to a whisper is in the power stroke. My Classics have 1-5/8 to 1-3/4" of handle wood (not counting the limb lams)taking that much from the power stroke is a huge loss in performance, much more than the 1 pound (max) of draw weight gained with a higher brace height.

I draw 29", the power stroke on my bow is 20-3/4", flip 1-3/4" of wood around to the front of the bow and that drops to 19" and that is huge loss of energy going into the arrow. About like comparing a 50 @ 28 bow to a 49 @ 29-3/4...I'll take the later.

A number of people over the years have tried running an above normal brace height on their bows to make it more forgiving...and it works...but they all loose speed....Fact

You're not losing any power stroke. Moving the handle doesn't change where the string stops at brace. Y'all are throwing aroung alot of math without scaling or chronographing the bow at both heights to actually do a valid test.

There's a 3fps difference between the shelton and a classic in a true test. It's the lack of "snap" that a classic has with a backset design that a shelton lacks. They have the same limb profile at brace.

I've seen more than one person running the low brace and thinking they were right until they raised it and ran it through a chrono again. The bow isn't performing in any way like it should run that low. I tried it too. It feels worse on the shot, lower speed, and vibrated/noisier. Mainly, not to Steve's design. It's your bow though. Run it how you want it. I could put an audio recording of me and Steve talking about this and still have arguing.

[WESTBROOK]

You move an inch and a half of handle from the belly to the back of the limbs and dont adjust the brace you are, in effect, drawing the the bow an inch and a half less...pretty simple.

[WESTBROOK]

You move an inch and a half of handle from the belly to the back of the limbs and dont adjust the brace you are, in effect, drawing the the bow an inch and a half less...pretty simple.

[jhk1]

There's more to it than just brace height & power stroke.  I haven't talked with Steve about this, but I'm pretty sure that a 68" 50#@28" NM Classic doesn't have the exact same limbs (stack thickness, etc.) as a 68" 50#@28" Whisper (reverse handle).  Assuming the same limb profile, width, and taper rate, the limbs on the Whisper would have to be a tad thicker (deeper) to give the same draw weight at the same draw length as the Classic.

If you could take a 50#@28" Classic, and simply move the riser to the back side to make it a reverse-handle bow, you wouldn't have a 50#@28" reverse-handle bow.  The draw weight at 28" would be a few pounds lower.

[Roger Norris]

You guys are pretty darned scientific. I just twist my string up and/or down until it is quiet and shooting well. I don't tie on a nock or put silencers on until I'm happy with brace height. I always START where the bowyer recommends, it usually isn't far from there.