Classic vs. Whisper

[Ray Lyon]

Originally posted by Roger Norris:
You guys are pretty darned scientific. I just twist my string up and/or down until it is quiet and shooting well. I don't tie on a nock or put silencers on until I'm happy with brace height. I always START where the bowyer recommends, it usually isn't far from there.

Yep.

[WESTBROOK]

Scientific?  Not hardly, just basic bow mechanics and what happens when you do this instead of that.

[JR Belk]

One thing that can definitely be gotten out of this is no matter how you set it up, it's going to be a shooter. Not many bows can be run all over the place as far as this much difference, and everyone still be happy with how it performs.

[WESTBROOK]

JR,  what length is your Whisper?

I'm on the fence between 66 & 68" for 29" draw

[JR Belk]

66" 53#@28. actually scales 63# at my draw

[WESTBROOK]

JR,  what length is your Whisper?

I'm on the fence between 66 & 68" for 29" draw

[Gordon Jabben]

Ok, I'm going to admit I was wrong, at least up to a point on the brace height and difference in  speed of the bow.  I went to the local archery shop and used their coronagraph and here are the results.
I draw 27" and have a less than crisp release.  The same arrow was used-540 grain 56# spine cedar shaft with large 5" feathers. Both bows used in the test were 68" Northern Mist Whispers.
59# bow 6 1/4" brace 164,162,166,163 fps
59# bow 7 1/2" brace 161,163,160,158,161 fps
The 59# bow has string silencers and is 18 strand B-55.
56# bow 6 3/4" brace 163,166,165 fps
56# bow 7 1/2" brace 164,166,164,166 fps.
The 56# bow doesn't have silencers and is 16 strand B-50.

For comparison, I shot a very r/d 69" 55# bow with an 18 strand B-50 string with silencers and shot 165 and 166 fps.

I couldn't really compare the Whisper to the Classic because I have skinny ff strings on the Classic.

I'm going to conclude on my bows the brace height doesn't make a noticeable difference on the bow speed.

[JR Belk]

Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
JR,  what length is your Whisper?

I'm on the fence between 66 & 68" for 29" draw

I'd go with the 66". I have a 30" draw and mine is still very comfortable at my draw length. At 29" it'll be like butter

[JR Belk]

Originally posted by Gordon Jabben:
Ok, I'm going to admit I was wrong, at least up to a point on the brace height and difference in  speed of the bow.  I went to the local archery shop and used their coronagraph and here are the results.
I draw 27" and have a less than crisp release.  The same arrow was used-540 grain 56# spine cedar shaft with large 5" feathers. Both bows used in the test were 68" Northern Mist Whispers.
59# bow 6 1/4" brace 164,162,166,163 fps
59# bow 7 1/2" brace 161,163,160,158,161 fps
The 59# bow has string silencers and is 18 strand B-55.
56# bow 6 3/4" brace 163,166,165 fps
56# bow 7 1/2" brace 164,166,164,166 fps.
The 56# bow doesn't have silencers and is 16 strand B-50.

For comparison, I shot a very r/d 69" 55# bow with an 18 strand B-50 string with silencers and shot 165 and 166 fps.

I couldn't really compare the Whisper to the Classic because I have skinny ff strings on the Classic.

I'm going to conclude on my bows the brace height doesn't make a noticeable difference on the bow speed.

It's still pretty cool that it's doing around the same with such a difference in brace heights. Cool test

[Gordon Jabben]

Thanks JR, I was really surprised.  Just shooting these bows, I would have sworn the higher brace height really slowed them down.

[JR Belk]

Kinda surprised me the lower didn't change performance much either. I guess that's a good sign if the brace height drops and you don't notice. I've seen a few twists really mess up arrow flight on other bows.

[Ray Lyon]

Eric,
Double check with Steve is always the safe answer. While I was waiting for my Shelton, I picked up a used JD Berry Northstar. It's a reverse handle string follow model. It was only 62" and shot very nicely for my 28/28.25 inch draw.  My Shelton is 66" and feels great to me. I like the length better than my 68" Hill Tembo (I know it's not the same design). I've also got a 66" Shultz Natural, which is a string follow design. In a string follow, I think you can get away with a little less bow length for a given draw. But that's my opinion, not a factual test or bow test knowledge. Your mileage may vary......

If you weren't a southpaw, I'd tell you to scoot up to Krogels range and shoot through the course.

[WESTBROOK]

Yea Ray, being LH sucks for that reason...I dont get to try a lot of bows...but it has saved me a lot of money just the same.

I know Steve has built some short Whispers, like 60-62", but I'm not gonna try that. I have 2 Sheltons at 68" and 3 Classics at 70,70 & 68" so I'm pretty used to the length. So I wa just figuring 2" less than normal for the reverse handle.

[ScouterMike]

Here is what I have found...I own Sheltons, Whispers, a Classic and the first Ramer. I have tested them all including several other ASL over the years and Steve's bows perform as good, usually better as any ASL. There is maybe 3 fps difference between the Northern Mist models with the reverse handles being very slightly slower with the same limb profile. Nothing anyone would ever notice in the field or even in arrow matching.

Also string material (ff, ff skinny, dacron) makes little difference speed wise (maybe 2 fps) with an ASL with hunting weight arrows (10+ gpp), so if you like the better dampening of B50 as I do you are again losing nothing noticeable.

I am in the camp of tuning the brace height of the bow for least vibration/noise. The Sheltons (66in and 68in) are usually around 6in, 2 Whispers (66in and 68in) at 6 5/8in and the Ramer (66in) likes 6.5in best. String follows seem to like a slightly lower brace?

They shoot ok at higher brace, they are all very well mannered. My testing showed similar as above...raising the brace height will slightly increase draw weight, slightly decrease cast (not sure why, I think the longer power stroke trumps the slight draw weight increase). Anyway the results are easy to measure and consistent but again the difference is so small it is irrelevant.

The limb material also makes little difference (I cannot measure any).

What is important to me is that Steve's bows are so consistent I can pick out any one and still be on target..

[ScouterMike]

As far as bow length on the reverse handles...I need a 30in arrow (about 29in draw length) and the 66in Whisper is fine. I do like the 68in better though. I have shot a 64in Whisper and it would be ok at about 28in.

The string follow seems to allow a shorter bow also, a 66in Shelton is fine for me but I prefer 68in. The Ramer is a 66in bow and is more than enough length for me. I will get the next Ramer at 68in though, don't ask me why, I do not know.

[WESTBROOK]

Real good info Mike, Thanks!

I'm about the same as far as bow length, the 68" Classic works fine but I do like shooting the 70" better. So here I am...66 or 68"...got a coin?..

[Ray Lyon]

Eric. I would not go any less than 66 inch for you.  I was just using the 62" Berry as an example.

And with your stable of longbows I'd go with 68".

[WESTBROOK]

Ray..how early is too early at Krogels?

Goin saturday...

Be there if your doin nothin.

[Ray Lyon]

Sorry Eric, I've got a couple of graduation party's to attend. Krogel's have lock box all set, so go as early as you want.  Just sign the waver form as you have to do the first time on the course every year.  Have fun.

[strigif0rm3s]

I know this is an old thread, but for those of you that have a classic and a whisper does the draw cycle feel the same between the two?