Picking A Tipi Maker - lessons learned

[Steve Chappell]

My interest in getting a tipi for hunting began many years ago. I have spent literally years checking them out and figuring out what size and features would meet my needs.  Some of the things that fixated me on a tipi and were critical in what I wanted in a tipi were, among other things, 1. light weight for packing  2. house up to four people & their gear reasonably well 3. ability to physically stand up as a 6'1" person 4. withstand varied harsh weather conditions 5. Stove jack.  It took years before I finally moved forward because I could not get over the cost.  Tipi’s are very expensive! When I started looking for tipi’s there were basically 2 makers traditional bowhunters held out as viable options…Kifaru and Seek Outside. After all the research I did I had narrowed down and decided I would go with a 8 Man Seek Outside as I felt, at that time...Seek Outside offered the best value for the price, their Tipi’s had some bells and whistle Kifaru did have or offer...Seek Outside was willing to make customizations where Kifaru would not...I also was treated much better by the SO folks when calling with questions where the Kifaru people came across as arrogant and openly bashed SO, which really turned me off.  Both brands have very good reputations, for good reasons, and Kifaru has some of the most dedicated, outspoken, loyal followers one can find.  In my research I also read up on a lot of different fabric types and I wanted other fabric options to Silnylon.  Cuben Fiber had caught my eye along with a few other fabrics.  All have their pros and cons, as does Silnylon.  

Somewhere in the process, I was referred to Brian DeRosa from Wyoming Lost and Found.  He made tipis and offered other fabric options to Silnylon, which really interested me.  I spoke to Brian a lot on the phone as well as a number of people (hunters) who had his tipis. His craftsmanship got high marks and I was made aware of personality issues.  He was the only person willing to make me a tipi out of Cuben Fiber. I posted a thread on PowWow that got rather lively regarding these 3 brands and Mr. DeRosa...I defended a guy my TradGang family was telling me to be very careful of.  Despite the warnings, I decide he had overcome his past and was worth giving a 2nd chance so I hired him to build me a Cuben Fiber 8 man tipi.  The total cost was to be in the $2,500 range and sent him the $1,000 down payment to get started.  

It took several months after sending the deposit, which was cashed promptly, to get a few cuban fiber samples with more sample to come soon.  A few months later, I knew I was in trouble and pulled the plug on the cuban fiber tipi and requested a refund.  To make a long story short, I never got a refund.  It took nearly a year of patience and persistence to get something for my money. What finally turned the scale and got him to send me a tipi was posting on his and Wyoming Lost and Found FaceBook pages letting Buyer Beware with my story of how he made off with $1,000 of mine.  Despite getting a tipi, I still lost several hundred dollars but at least I had the tipi I have wanted for years…or did I?  

I used the Lost and Found tipi for the first time at MLA Spring Shoot here in Michigan in May of 2016 and found I do not care for it.  It is well made, so credit were credit is due, but it is not the tipi I had my heart set on, far from it.  It is not as tall or wide as what he was supposed to build me; one of my top reason’s for wanting a tipi.  It is a bare bones tipi with a stove jack.  After using it that weekend, I did what I was going to do prior to being introduced to Brian DeRosa and Wyoming Lost and Found…

…I bought a Seek Outside 8 and tipi with screen doors, removable half floor and removable half liner with a carbon center pole.  I used it for the first time at the Michigan Traditional Bowhunter gathering the weekend of 6/24/16 and absolutely love it.  

Lessons learned:
1. Listen to your TradGang family; they have your best interest and back!
2. A person’s past behavior is a very good indication of the future!
3. Reputation is earned and a good reputation is well worth paying extra for!
4. Never trust or buy a thing from this guy again!

[Broken Arrows]

I purchased an 8 man from seek outside and love it. It is amazing how fast they go up and will withstand the wind very well. I will be using it at Elk camp for two weeks this Sept. I can't wait.
Seek Outside are very professional and build a great product.

[Steve O]

Sorry to hear that Steve.

"Leopards don't change their spots" is a pretty safe bet.

Glad your SO fits your needs.

[Steve O]

A couple asides:

I've always had positive experiences dealing with anybody at the Kifaru shop; all the way up to Patrick himself. Sometimes confidence and total knowledge of your product can come off as arrogance.

Possibly Cuben would have held up better to this moose hoof?

   


   


We had a bull roam thru camp while down river last fall about 1/2 way thru the hunt last fall. No issues in some nasty weather the rest of the hunt and Kifaru fixed it up like new for me for a very small charge.


Watch where you pitch that new tipi!

       

[ozy clint]

steveO- is that a kifaru tipi? i've been looking at getting a 12 man for family camping.

i would love to see some more pics of it.

[Kevin Dill]

Steve C: You and I had several exchanges regarding tipis back when you were looking hard at WLF products. I had a bad feeling about that situation, and I wish it had turned out better. I think it's stuff like that which leads me to select (major) products from people and companies who have the proof and reputation for putting out top end gear and backing it up. I don't necessarily always like how they speak, market or advertise their products, but that's the world as I know it. What matters the MOST to me is believing I can count on a shelter-tipi to hang tough and survive brutal conditions like I encountered last year. I don't spend any time stumping for Kifaru but that's what I use; I chose it because nobody...at that time...had more experience or a better reputation for building shelters tough enough for extreme weather.

I've researched S.O. gear pretty hard and would have no problems buying from them. Kevin seems to be a completely stand-up man who doesn't bs or cut corners to make easier profits. I know of a couple other US businesses building tipis and related gear, and they look to be doing a fine job of it.

Shelter selection for hunters can be a lot of different things. I break it down simply: mild or wild? If you know you're going somewhere wild (weather and very remote) you tend to select a tipi which has enough strength and guts to put up with adversity. Failure isn't an option when the weather goes to horrible and the only way out is by aircraft or a 50 mile hike through wilderness.

 

 

 

View from the front door last August:

 

[wingnut]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.  Like Kevin we go with what is going to bring us home alive.

We now have two Kifaru tipis a 16 man and a 12 man.
This year John and I will be using the 12 on our moose hunt.  Next year we have more going so both tents will go into camp.

John is working with Aron at Kifaru on a new heavier material 16.  We'll see if that works out.

Mike

[Steve O]

Clint--yes a Kifaru 8 man

The ultralight tipi excels when you need a light weight, compact, and bulletproof shelter. I pick it for far away trips where I am flying my gear commercially or if I am getting flown or horse packed with my own gear in to the back country.

I'd not pick it for family camping. A wall tent, big Cabelas dome or Alaknak tent, or a Kodiak Canvas is a LOT more comfortable for the family. Headroom everywhere, not just in the center. My 8 man is a backcountry palace for two with the stove but there is no way I would take the family in it. You have to think about what you are doing in there. I've not been in a 12 man though.

   

[Sam McMichael]

I am glad that you finally got a good tipi. However, that was an expensive lesson to learn. The only tipis I am really familiar with are the large canvas ones such as you see at rendezvous. They are fantastic tents but too heavy and bulky to backpack in.

[Kevin Dill]

I remember the first modern tipi I looked at. Angelo Christiano had a 4 man unit pitched at a Compton event many years ago. I got in it and looked around..."No way is this sufficient". A lot of discussion and research led me to an 8-Man for 2 hunters on extended hunts. I felt a bit unsure about dumping that much money into a shelter and stove...I seem to recall something near 2 grand all-in with stove, liner and a couple optional things. I still have it and it has exactly zero issues after many trips. I do know a few people who own or owned shelters from Seek Outside and they have had very good experiences. Nothing beats camping on a floor made of moss and lichen.

 

[Steve O]

I had a 4 man Kifaru with liner and stove for exactly ONE Alaska trip. It was too small for 2 guys and I could never stand up straight (I am 6-1). If I have to hunch over and be on my knees for a week straight, I'll make that sacrifice and take my 1# SuperTarp and Annex. The 4 man was a pleasure to have during the multiple 50mph storms we weathered in it though!


 


   


   


   


   

[Steve Chappell]

Kevin...you and others are spot on when it comes to reputation of the business and owner; it should be the #1 thing people focus on!  I consider myself a pretty smart researcher and buyer and I do put a great deal of emphasis on reputation as price is very low on my importance list, but I got sucked in on this one big time…despite people like you trying to steer me away.  I learned an expensive lesson trying to help someone when they were down.  My selection of SO over Kifaru was driven to a great degree by my interaction with those at SO (Kevin & Angie) along with some things their tipis have Kifaru did not have.  SO went out of their way taking the time to answer my email questions and talk to me on the phone over a long period of time (years) and never made me fell like I was a waste of their time.  I would have bought Kifaru without hesitation based on stand up people like yours, and others, testimonials and have been very happy.   Kifaru has  strong outspoken following for very good reason.  I actually have a number of Kifaru items, namely in the backpack area, and am very happy with them. Since Aron Snyder started becoming the public voice for Kifaru, he has really changed my image of Kifaru...he is a stand up guy who I respect a lot...even more now that he has gone traditional!-).  

I am happy with what I have now and am confident it will serve my needs well.  It will be going to Alaska in 2017.  I am finally going to make this hunt a reality.  I will not be doing the Moose John as I was supposed to do in 2014 with Yote because this area is now under the control of another Outfitter.  Finally found another traditional hunter to do this with me.  My other hunting partner bailed when the Moose John was lost.

[sticksnstones]

Man Steve C, I'm sorry to hear how it turned out. Really wishing that was going to come together.

I just signed up for a BHA life membership with their monthly payment plan at Compton Rendezvous. I figured I have plenty of guns that I don't use already, so I did the Seek Outside 6 man tipi plan. Should be here in time for Wyoming elk 2017  

Steve O/Kevin, awesome pics and info. Thanks for taking the time to spread your knowledge and experiences in this thread as well as all of the others. I know that at least a few lurkers like me appreciate it!
Thom

[Walt Francis]

Listen to Kevin D., he has a lot of experience with these.  He is right, an eight man is needed for an extended trip of two people. Hunter and I are taking an 8 man on our moose trip to AK this year.  On my last moose hunt we took a Kifaru 6 man, and it worked..... okay, however.......I will just say unless you are 5'0" tall get the 8 man.

[Orion]

I've been using a 6-man Kifaru on my western hunts the past several years.  As Walt says, it works OK for 2 guys, but if I had it to do over again, I'd get an 8-man.

[Roadkill]

SO 8 man.  Running it thru PAces this weekend for the first time

[Kevin Dill]

Walt...best of luck in your quest for another great bull this fall.

I can't really take any credit for having the smarts to get a good tipi. The late Larry Fisher, Angelo Christiano, John Havard, Nick Dedaker and a couple other hardcore hunters advised me of their experiences with tipis. Incidentally all these men had or had used Kifaru units and endorsed them 100%. That's one of the reasons I went to the K brand. Seek Outside was much lesser known then but has built a solid reputation in the years since. GoLite was another company offering tipis but they had some sort of business issues which shut them down. TiGoat builds great gear but seems to run under the radar much of the time. My friend and hunting partner bought a Vertex tipi from TiGoat last year and I believe he loves it.

I think some guys read '8 man' and think 'huge'. Not true. Much of the footprint is low-clearance perimeter and suited only for gear placement. Two men, their gear, bedrolls, stove and a pile of firewood are easily accommodated. Add a 3rd man and it tightens things up a lot. Not a big deal for a 3-6 day hunt but 10-14 days is different. A fourth man in there turns it into a '70 VW Beetle and decidedly tighter quarters. I don't enjoy cramped tents after a couple days.

It's almost a ritual scene: Sitting in my tipi eating dinner or maybe sharpening a head. Wood-stove popping with dry spruce catching fire. Boots drying. Gloves hanging overhead. I love every bit of it.

[Steve Chappell]

Based on my first stay in my new SO 8 man, I'd have to agree it would be uncomfortably tight for 4, even 3, people and gear.  It seems perfect for 2 people, gear with some room to sit around doing whatever needs doing. I plan to use it in 2017 on a 2 person 2 week plus AK Moose hunt...and GLLI in August.

[Walt Francis]

Kevin warned me about the 6 man before I went.  When it comes to experience with good gear it seems he is usually right

Kevin,

Thanks, good luck if you are headed up this year.  This hunt is about giving Hunter an Alaskan experience, if either of us (hopefully him) gets lucky and tags a moose we will feel blessed.

My longtime hunting buddy Lenny Brown and I are booked with our mutual friend in 2017.  You should have seen Sue "squirming" when she learned about it last night.  After Lenny left, a casual observer might of thought it was an early fourth of July      It might make me a divorcee, but I am looking at going solo in 2018, it's a 60th birthday present to myself.

[K.S.TRAPPER]

Sorry I got to say it, although there very nice they are not "Tipis" call them what they are Conical nylon tents!

I think there awesome and have nothing against them, great for packing and light weight. Great design just not a Tipi!

       

Tracy