Draw Weights on Dan Quillian Bows

[nek4me]

Don Stokes has made several recent references to Dan Quillian and the current topic about draw length got me thinking about draw weights as marked on Dan's bows.

It has been noted his bows (at least some models) were marked for draw weight based on 26" rather than the typical AMO of 28" for production bows. The markings didn't specify what draw length the  weight was based on and I've seen old posts in other forums where those who apparently didn't know had commented about their bows feeling heavier or actually being measured much heavier than marked which reinforces this concept.

Later, after he sold Archery Traditions I believe the bows were marked with the standard @ 28" until going out of production.  

Were the marked weights for all models based on 26"?

Why did he have them marked them this way?

He was a proponent of high velocity and his bows have a reputation for speed. Did basing the marked weights on 26" give the appearance of even more speed compared to similar weights at the more standard 28" draw?

Maybe members in the know or owners of his bows will chime in on this. Don't see many listed for those that do list their collections on here.

[Don Stokes]

To my knowledge Dan only made one model based on a 26" draw, a Bamboo Longhunter made for women/youth shooters with shorter draws. It is 60" in length, and the production models had a warning sticker about overdrawing the bow. I believe everything else was based on the 28" standard, at least while he still owned the business. His Jeffrey bows were marked for draw weight based on a 7" brace height from the back of the shelf for Dacron strings, and when Dan started using skinnier fast flight strings braced at just over 6", the actual draw weight became 3-4# lower than marked by Jeffrey, but the bows shot harder. My first Longhunter came with Dacron, with walnut tip overlays, and it didn't hold up to the FF which cut through my tip. I sent it back to Jeffrey and they repaired it with tougher overlays, no problem since then, and the tougher overlays became standard after that. So, the older bows may not be FF compatible. The change took place somewhere in the late 80's, I think. After my experience with the tip failure, Dan also started having Dacron added to the loops to help with the abrasiveness of the FF.

[Don Stokes]

I have the original prototype for the 60" youth bow, and it shoots very well for me drawn to 27", where it starts to stack, like a draw check. I shot my best 3D score with it, but I prefer to hunt with more forgiving longer bows. My normal draw is 28" for longbows and 29" for recurves.

[8upbowhunter]

I have a DQ longbow and it shows DQ 358 and 68" 59# but doesn't say at what draw length. I have never put it on a scale to see what it draws at 28" but it feels like it is around the stated weight. It is a great shooter but a little on the heavy side for me on those cold mornings after I have been sitting for a few hours. I would love to know more about this bow if anyone has any info on it.

[Don Stokes]

8up, that's a pretty low number. The bow will have been rated at 28" draw. I don't know how to age them by the number, but Tom Jeffery probably can. In general, if the bow doesn't show the draw length at which it was measured, it is measured at the standard 28".
I just looked at my 68" Bamboo Longhunter that was made in 1988, but the numbers are no longer legible from wear and refinishing when Tom reduced it from 65 to 55 for me. I got a nice bull elk with that bow the first year I hunted with it.

My 60" prototype, which is the first one made this way, in the late 90's, is marked QL80594 60" 52#@26". That 0 in the number may be a D.

[8upbowhunter]

Thanks Don, my first ever trad hunt was an elk hunt last year with that bow but I wasn't lucky enough to get a shot with it. I really like this bow and maybe I can find someone to reduce it to around 50# for me so I would feel more comfortable hunting with it.

[BWD]

I have owned three Canebreaks, and have two friends that still own Canebreaks, and all scaled heavier than marked. So did the two Patriots I owned.

[Sam McMichael]

I have had 3 Bamboo Longhunters, and they were all rated at 28" draw. I shot the 58# bow the best of any longbow I have owned but traded it off for a heavier bow, as advocated by Dan. I wish I had it back since I can't draw the 78# bow any more. I was able to get another one from a TG member at 56#. It is in my current power range.

[nek4me]

I have a Canebrake which is why I was trying to get to the bottom of this. I have never had an opportunity to weigh it but looking at what little is on the web about this bow the weight deviation seems to always be commented on. There was one former dealer for Dan who mentions on multiple threads the Canebrakes were measured at 26". Some who actually measured theirs cited the weights were 4-5 lbs more at 28" than marked. And these were not marked in 5lb increments as common production bows are so there's no reason not to mark the actual weights.  

We know Dan measured brace height from the edge of the shelf rather than the bottom of the grip - 6 1/4" recommended for the Canebrake. Could it be weight was also measured from there? That could explain the 4-5 lbs difference many experienced.

The other question that comes up is by whom these were made. Some say Damon Howatt and others  Jeffreys. With both of these operations still in existence you would think these questions that have lurked for so long could be answered definitely.

But I guess it will become a small part of Dan's legacy.

[Don Stokes]

The Canebreak was made by Martin. Dan had a close relationship with them, as an old friend of Dan Martin. I never checked one on a scale, but I do know that the Jeffrey longbows scaled a few pounds lower due to the difference in brace height(Jeffrey didn't like FF). Martin started making the Canebrake after Dan started putting FF on his bows, so they should have been scaled at near the right brace height. Don't know. The Canebrake shoots differently from the Jeffrey recurves, seemed to have more stack, and I sold the two Canebrakes I had because I couldn't interchange them with my Longhunters without changing my style, as I could the Patriots. During my association with Dan I didn't pay much attention to the recurves, so I don't know how the Patriot scales. I have two Patriot II risers (has stiffener lams in the handle) and three sets of limbs, 41, 52, and 61, but I've never checked them. I had four sets, but sold the 70# limbs and a LH riser to Ozzy Clint several years ago for one of his buddies. This year I'm shooting the 61# limbs, shooting the same spine arrows I shot from my 64# Bamboo Longhunter (measured; it was marked 67), so it must be close. I'm not sure, but I think Damon Howatt may have made his one-piece recurves. I never shot one of those. Dan had several bows in his line that I have no experience with, but I know the Longhunters and Patriots pretty well because they were my choices to shoot.

[Don Stokes]

A side note on his bow design: Dan came to visit the arrow shaft plant regularly, and on one visit Dan saw the alteration I had made to the shelf of the little 60" Longhunter he had given me. The bow was tricky for me because I was drawing it to the stacking point, so I tamed it a bit by cutting away most of the shelf at about a 45 degree angle, just leaving enough up front to support the arrow and thereby getting maximum clearance for the fletching to pass the handle. The light went off in his eyes, and he did his own personal bow that way to try it out. He went so far as to extend the shelf on his with putty and cut away the rest of it, to test the effect on performance. He was convinced, and began having his production bows made with the cutaway shelf, but when the new owners took over they didn't understand the reasoning, didn't like the "look", and reverted them to the regular flat shelf. That's one way to tell his earlier bows from the later ones. I didn't deal with the new owners at all.

[Don Stokes]

Yes, I butchered what may be a very collectible bow, a prototype, in the interest of archery science.  

[Don Stokes]

Re the cutaway shelf, the arrow rested as far forward as possible, but the contact point on the vertical part of the sight window was put directly above the deepest point on the grip, to avoid torque effects. I build mine out just a bit over that point to make sure. Learned that from the old man.

[Butchie]

I had a Canebreak way back when and it was marked 55#.  I would of expected it to scale around 61 or so at my 30" draw.  It scaled at 67# @ 30" so it was definitely heavier than marked.  Shot that bow well though and killed several deer with it before selling it.

[Don Stokes]

The brace height determines the draw weight at 28", within several pounds, so the bows must have been rated with a lower brace height than people are actually using. The best brace height for arrow flight is also dependent on string weight (heavier strings need a higher brace), so there are several factors that could account for the differences observed. Sounds like Martin could have done better. IDK.

[wapiti]

My Canebrake was marked 59# and scaled at 28" on 3 different scales at 63#

[Neely1911]

I've got a Canebrake thats marked 39# but pulls 44-45# at 28" on a digital scale.

[nek4me]

I took my 52# Canebrake to a Trad only shop today. He had a hand held draw weight scale he uses all the time which measured it 55# @ 28". I had it set at the recommended brace height of 6 1/4" from edge of shelf with the original factory string.