Hill Bow Shelf Wear?

[Cryogenic]

I have a Wesley Special 68in 45#, purchased in December.  I have been working to tune it for several months.  No luck.  It shoots ok, but the arrows tend to fishtail and the strike plate wears towards the rear after only a handful of arrows.

I've used 500 and 600 spines in lengths from 28 to 30 inches with anywhere from 100 to 275 up front.  There are changes as I approach the extremes of that range, but overall no luck.  Bare shaft always kicks tail left.  I cannot use arrows crested with paint because the paint wears off very quickly.

Here's a picture of how the arrow sits on the shelf.  The wear is exactly where the arrow rests against the shelf (which is where the white cap ends).  My other bow seems to rest more in the middle.


So here's the question:  Do I need to remove shelf material, or is this normal?  My other HHA bow (Tembo) has the arrow contact about the shelf's middle at rest, and the arrows shoot perfectly.

Thank you all!

   

When the bow is strung is the string running perfectly down the center of the grip?

[monterey]

What is the brace height?

[Cryogenic]

race height has been between 6 and 7 inches.  No change as the brace height changes.  The picture is at 7, I believe.

The string does seem to line up with the handle, though it's hard to tell if it lines up with the middle of the limb or not.  I'll take a closer look tonight.

Thanks all!

[Orion]

The 600s should probably work for you if you draw 28 inches.  If your brace height is at least 6 1/2 inches, slapping off the strike plate shouldn't occur due to a low brace height.  It could still occur because the shafts are too stiff, but you seem to have covered most of those bases.

Could be your nock point is too low and the shaft is actually bouncing off the shelf.  Where do you have your nock set now?

[Cryogenic]

I do draw pretty close to 28.  

The bow is tillered for 3 under, which is what I shoot.  I've tried nock points from 1/8 to 1 inch.  I think it's at 5/8 right now.

[monterey]

Matt, what part of the state are you in?  If In the Denver area you can go to RMSG and try some different arrows.  They have lots of different shafts and are happy to help you out.

[WESTBROOK]

How tight are the nocks on the string?

You should be able to put a good bit of weight on a 600 spine arrow

[Cryogenic]

Mike - I am about 1.5 hours away from RMSG, so I may end up going that route.  I can't imagine that the spines/point weights I've tried won't do the trick.  The range I've tried goes from too stiff to too weak, with the wear never going away.

Eric - I don't believe the nocks are too tight.  They can be tapped off the string if left hanging.  Is it possible that a 100 grain insert and 175 grain point not be enough?\\

Thank you all once again!

[damascusdave]

Is that bow a dual shelf?

DDave

[Cryogenic]

No.  It's just a regular righty.  I added the leather grip and rolled the top and bottom edges, so it might look like more of a shelf than it has.

[Longtoke]

Originally posted by monterey:
Matt, what part of the state are you in?  If In the Denver area you can go to RMSG and try some different arrows.  They have lots of different shafts and are happy to help you out. [/QUOTE

[fnshtr]

This sounds very similar to a problem I have been having with one of my bows. I'm getting rest wear in the same place.

Another thing I have noticed is that I cannot get my arrows to paper tune. Paper tuning indicates I have a low nock, no matter how low I move it. I had to just set it (by sight) where no obvious porpoising is occurring. I still have the rest wear problem.

?????

When I do my own Hill style bows, I make the arrows contact point further to the back of the bow, closer to the lams.  The arrow does have initial contact to the bow as it builds up speed.  With all noncenter shot bows there will always be that inward bend, which for a bit, increases contact when the shaft is resisting acceleration.  It is simple physics, an object at rest tries to stay at rest and an object in motion tends stay in motion. If the contact is not causing an erratic launch of the arrow or an irregular spine adjustment, I am not sure if there really is any problem.

[damascusdave]

I think I have an idea how to solve your problems...carbon arrows do not particularly change in dynamic spine with changes in point weight despite what you might think you learn from a spine calculator...on the other hand carbon arrows change rather quickly in dynamic spine as you shorten them...shoot the 600 spine arrows full length, 32 inches these days if I am not mistaken and I bet your issue goes away...a properly spined arrow should never get anywhere near the rest material, especially when it starts out pointing way to the left like yours do...what you are seeing and describing is a classic case of a too stiff dynamic spine situation

DDave

[damascusdave]

With a too stiff arrow you will get what looks like a too weak reading, a tail left situation for a right hander...what is happening is that the tail of the too stiff arrow bounces off the bow on the way past kicking the tail to the left...a correctly spined arrow will be flexing around the riser and the tail end will never come near the riser...right now you should be finding the bow noisy when the arrow whacks off the riser

DDave

[damascusdave]

The other factor you have not addressed is the actual draw weight of the bow at your static (posed) draw length and then your dynamic (shooting) draw length...I can pose a 31 inch draw length with my lighter bows (under 50 pounds) but that does not mean I can shoot 31 inches with my 70 pound bows...I shoot them at more like 29 inches...my guess would be that your dynamic shooting weight is more like 40 pounds

DDave

[Butch Speer]

I shoot a HH Halfbreed. 68"44@28. 400 spine at 29 1/2 or 500 spine at 28. 300 grns up front. Either one shoots great with field points or broadheads. Probably doesn't help but I think your close.

[TSP]

For comparison purposes you might try a 45-50# woody cut to 29" BOP with a 125 gr, point.  That arrow should fly pretty well from your bow, if you draw in the 27.5" - 28" range.  If it does fly ok  then you'll know that your carbons are likely the cause of your problem...i.e. they are probably too stiff.

[Cryogenic]

Lots of good info here.  Thank you gentlemen!

1.  I tried 30 inch 600 sprine with 275 up front.  Still rubbing.  It does not make noise.  It never did make noise (arrow hitting the bow hard).

2. The string tracks down the middle of the riser fine.  I cannot look down on the strung bow and see the string track down the middle of both limbs.  If my perspective has the string tracking down the middle of the lower limb, the string appears to track bias to the left (more right side visible than left via string to limb bisection).  Vice versa the other way.  We're talking a 1/16 or 1/8 inch here.

Is that a thing?