Bareshaft tuning w/ extreme FOC

[bagada]

Hi. Im bareshaft tuning a full 32 inch gold tip 400 with a 250 grain target point. it flies very straight except it always hits nock high. DO I lower the nock point or will it always hit nock high since the front point is so heavy. It seems to compound at longer ranges (20 yards+). I think its due to the fact that im shooting a heavy arrow +12 GPP+heavy FOC+my bow is a 40lb and i draw about 28-29 inches. I dont have a very flat trajectory and the arrow falls quickly around 20 yards. just want to make sure im tuning this thing right. Thanks, I just started archery this week. So much fun.

[Friend]

Bare shaft tuning requires accomplished form.

Not saying that my form is accomplished , however, my results with ultra EFOC arrows has permitted me to shoot a 3D course with an 8.0 average utilizing only a bare shaft.. Hi end EFOC arrows baareshaft much better for me personally. An Ultra EFOC fletched arrow may correct itself within have the distance that it takes for a nominal FOC fletched arrow.

[screamin]

I would lower the nock and see what happens, you can always put it back. When a high foc arrow is tuned correctly, I have noticed no difference in flight compared to a lower foc arrow of the same weight.

[AZ_Longbow]

Are you shooting a target at a downwards angle?

[bagada]

Originally posted by AZ_Longbow:
Are you shooting a target at a downwards angle?

I am...I will try on a flat target at shoulder hight. I will also try lowering the nock point.

[Shadowhnter]

You are likely plucking the string, or getting a bad release of some type. Ive been experimenting recently with 885 gr arrows, 26% foc, with a 42lb bow. There is no nose diving into the target or nock high, even at 20 yrds. In fact im shocked at how they have not dropped but the little they have. Ive been deadly accurate with them instead.... Blows me away.

[bagada]

btw...what is EFOC? thanks

[Shadowhnter]

Extreme front of center.....refering to weight forward balance point.

[Shadowhnter]

When bare shafting heavy foc arrows, dont necessarily pay attention to how they strike the target. Ive seen many come out, swing pretty hard, and get pulled straight  by the weight forward effects before it hits the target. Watch the arrows actual  flight, preferably with a second person watching from behind. Then you can see what is really going on.

[bagada]

how do I tell if im plucking the string? Im researching now but im still working on my realease and anchor. tried going with the full blown lock in thumb knuckle behind jaw, pointer on corner of mouth, and pointer nuckle on cheeckbone. This feels solid but it actully twists the string funny, turns my arm funny, and makes my release poopoo. So instead I feel that the middle finger to corner mouth and thumb straight with first knuckle touching cheekbone. its only 2 points of contact but it makes my release so much better. also better for snappy shooting. Not that im focusing on snap shooting but im still experimenting with anchors. Its kinda like howard hills anchor style. straight alighnment in hands and fingers yet deep hook. also feel stronger with this style hold. I will work on my form first before I start getting deep into tuning. Thanks guys.

[katman]

Ken Beck of black widow bows covers tuning very well with a video. States some archers can not tune out a little nock high.

If you plan on hunting shoot a broadhead and field tip arrow and if impact is same your good to go. Enjoy the sport.

Originally posted by katman:

...If you plan on hunting shoot a broadhead and field tip arrow and if impact is same your good to go. Enjoy the sport.

I agree.  I never pay any attention to nock high, low, left or right.  I only work with impact.  I start close and work my way back.  By the time I get to 25 yards I'm  good enough.

[Shadowhnter]

Originally posted by bagada:
how do I tell if im plucking the string?

At this point without an experienced archer being there watching, the only way you know is not being able to tune out poor arrow flight....or just discovering what a properly executed release is, and knowing that doesnt closely match/resemble what you are doing.

The biggest thing, is keeping your hand in line with the arrow as you release. The only good way to do that as far as I know, is to develop a place for your release hand to go to, after you've released... that is in line with your original anchor and the arrow. For instance, I anchor middle finger at mouths corner. Upon release, I smoothly allow my fingers to drag back along my face without  losing contact but not digging in. I continue this until I reach my ear lobe with my middle finger...always keeping my release hand straight in line with the drawn arrow. Thats the idea anyway, as I dont always perfectly execute that from being plagued with bad habit development.

Another thing to watch out for, is using your anchor points to try to help hold some of the draw weight. That causes a static type release, and the hand/fingers cannot help but come out and away from the face, putting side pressures on the arrow, and causing poor arrow flight...aka bad release/plucking. Keep steady full pressure on the string only with your draw hand/deep hook, but use your back muscles to hold it,not your face.

I love Ken Beck to death, but there is absolutely no reason you cannot get straight arrow flight, if your form and release are right. His saying that about nock high years ago, caused me to ignore my constant nock high arrows. That inturn allowed me to develop deep rooted release issues which is where the problem truely was, that were extremely hard to break, and plauge me some still.

[JimB]

It's normal for me to have some nock high when bare shafting EFOC arrows.It straightens right out with fletching.I've learned to accept it.

[TxSportsman]

Originally posted by Shadowhnter:
You are likely plucking the string, or getting a bad release of some type. Ive been experimenting recently with 885 gr arrows, 26% foc, with a 42lb bow. There is no nose diving into the target or nock high, even at 20 yrds. In fact im shocked at how they have not dropped but the little they have. Ive been deadly accurate with them instead.... Blows me away.

This intrigues me as I am setting up some arrows for my #42 bow. Would you mind either posting here or sending me a PM as to your arrow setup please? Thanks!

[Shadowhnter]

I'll pm you so no hijacking goes on.

[Jake Scott]

I would like to point out as a sort of sidebar that efoc is not a substitute for proper spine, it is still immensely important that your arrow is of the proper spine for the weight that you shoot.  Maybe everyone knows that and I'm speaking now out of turn, if so I apologize.


Keep it in mind.

Jake

[Shadowhnter]

No jake, absolutely right and not speaking out of turn at all..  They are indeed 2 seperate things to think about and deal with. They are only related by point weight to length. Correct Spine also involves the bows energy though along with weight and length, among other issues, where efoc only deals with balance point.

If your arrow does not stay reasonably straight, by evenly flexing back and forth to each side as it flys (correct spine tuning), no amount of efoc or fletching can make up for that energy loss....even if they straighten out, a lot of the energy has already been lost.