Paper Tuning Shenanigans.. you wont believe this..

[DanielB89]

I shoot a triple carbon centaur that is #52@29 and I draw to ~29.5".  After a conservation with a buddy about tuning and how my arrows always come out stiffer than "normal", i decided to deviate from my typical bare shaft tuning and tried to "trust the paper".  

After talking with several people I trust much more than myself, I started with a full length (32") .500 spine.  I put my typical 175 grain head on it and shoot.. WWWWAAAAAAYYYYYY WEAK.  

I them grabbed a .400 spine that is 31.75" long with the typical 175 grain head, less weak, but still very weak.  I then grab the arrow.350 spine 31.75" long that bare shafted "like a bullet" and put it through the paper.  It did show a little weak, but it was by far the best.  I trimmed, trusting the paper, and low and behold, it started shooting bullet holes.  


After sending Jake all the results, both he and I are both stumped...

The Top left is the .500, the bottom right is the .400, and the middle ones are the .340's.  
 


These were the results after a little trimming..
 


Has anyone else had similar results?  I would love some of your opinions and experiences.  

**all shots were taken from around 6 feet to the paper**

[Jake Scott]

Lay it on us, fellas.  The paper doesn't lie, but I have no explanation for why a .340 would spine out for Daniel's specs.  I am all ears on this one....    

Jake

[9 Shocks]

My two centaurs took a stiff arrow as well.

I was shooting 54#s @ 26"S and could have shot a longer .340 but ended up with a 28 3/4" 400 with 225 up front. Shot like a bullet

I have always heard that the centaurs required a stiffer shaft than some other bows. I also don't worry about the things that sometimes don't "seem right". When I get the bullet holes, I know I'm golden!

Bisch

[mark Willoughby]

Makes me wanna go shoot some paper

[Pine]

Like I always say , if it works , don't worry about the numbers .
I have a 45# K-Mag that shoots an arrow 15# heavier than it should , but I can't shoot a lighter arrow without it going down range sideways .        

[ChuckC]

I have a question that I feel needs to be addressed.  We all see slo mo videos of archers paradox in action.  It takes a little bit of time to even out, in the mean time the arrow is moving side to side.  If the paper is placed only 6 feet from the bow, and the arrows are very near 3 feet before they come off the string, that leaves very little time to come to some sort of equilibrium.  At what point is the paradox giving false or wishful responses ?  If it goes left then right then ..... can you place your paper so that it makes a right hand tear, and if placed two feet further it makes a left hand tear and if you get it just right in between it makes a bullet hole, none of which show what is actually happening ?

Is six feet too close ?
ChuckC

Chuck, idk if 6' is too close, but that is the way I was taught to paper tune years ago. After I get the bullet holes at 6', I then move the paper out to about 15' and verify that I am still getting the same hole. After that, I shoot both field points and broadheads at a regular target and verify that the broadhead tipped arrows hit in the same place as the field point arrows. I have never not had my broadhead tipped arrows hit in the same place as the field points if I get the paper showing the bullet holes. Also, once I tune this way, my arrows fly so straight that I cannot see them on some shots until they hit the target. I use 2 white hen fletches so that I can see my arrow in flight better.

Bisch

[Orion]

Why are you surprised at your results?  Isn't a Centaur cut to or past center?  It's a high-performance bow with a high performance string.  

I wouldn't have even bothered trying a .500.  No doubt it was going to be weak.  Might have started with a .400, but I shoot .400s with 250 up front out of 50# bows at 28 inches, so I probably would have gone right to the .340s with your draw weight at 29 1/2 inches.

Your results are exactly what I would expect.  

[South MS Bowhunter]

Daniel and Jake,

My take as a Centaurs owner is that they are super efficient bows and  put that much energy where it belongs...in the arrow!

I have not paper tuned mine and it would be interesting to see how mine performs, but I now shoot 400 spined GT's out of a 52#@28" and I draw to around 29.5" to.  The arrow are 30" and 5/8 long and up front I have a 50 grain insert and 175 grain head.

To me mine shoot a tad on the stiff side and I have a very thin leather side plate.

[South MS Bowhunter]

Centaur are cut to center unless you have a Dymond wood model and ask jim to cut pass center.

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
Daniel and Jake,

My take as a Centaurs owner is that they are super efficient bows and  put that much energy where it belongs...in the arrow!

I have not paper tuned mine and it would be interesting to see how mine performs, but I now shoot 400 spined GT's out of a 52#@28" and I draw to around 29.5" to.  The arrow are 30" and 5/8 long and up front I have a 50 grain insert and 175 grain head.

To me mine shoot a tad on the stiff side and I have a very thin leather side plate.

And I have a pretty thick piece of leather on mine. Weird to me. Mentally, it all seems stiff to me, but I can physically see what appears to be right. Lol.

[old_goat2]

I'm not surprised at all! Long draw and a fast bow cut to center or past. I for the first time am shooting a hunting weight bow with hunting arrows that the spine on start with a 4. I've always had to shoot 340 spine minimum and often a 300 spine. Bought a whip and it's not cut as deep. I wanted to buy a Caribow a few months ago in rmsgear, I couldn't find an arrow stiff enough to shoot with any of the weight broadheads I'm willing to use. 31" draw isn't always that great to have!

[Msturm]

I have had weird results like that as well. Graps I have had the same results with a k Mag. Way stiffer arrow than one would think.  If you are getting bullet holes you got it figured out!  Stick with it.

[Chad Orde]

Same here I shoot similar specs and 400 where week 300 stiff been using 400s with 4" of footing did the trick for me.

[katman]

Sounds about right if the bow is cut past center, a longish draw and a long arrow. 340-350 spine works for low 50# when arrow is long and 200gr point for me drawing 29.5"

I also tried and lighter spined shafts on recommendations of others and found them extremely weak.

[RedShaft]

I have a black widow pchx that is 48# and shoots a cx heritage 350. With 175pt n brass insert.
I figured I would be shooting a 150 or 250 at most. Nope 350

[Jack Hoyt 75]

I dont know but yes you got the bullet hole.  As said aboveaybe move paper out to 15' and see what happens.  I also think the best test is group tuning.  If you shoot 3 fletched and 3 bare shaft do the all hit in same spot?  If fletched hit different that bareshaft there is still tuning to be done.  Whatever works for you.

[Bldtrailer]

Try your paper tune at different distances to check and make sure your not getting  a false "Tuned" catching the archers paradox in the mid flex. say 8ft.. 10 ft..... and back up with bare shaft grouping.

[wingnut]

Unless it's a elevated rest, paper tuning is almost useless.  Bare-shafting and broadhead tuning are a lot more accurate.

Heck even with a compound and release paper tuning in most folks hands is problematic.

How are they flying?

Mike