Flemish string making question

[Cheezer]

So in my endless youtube searching for the best way to make a flemish, I've seen three different methods of making the bottom loop.

One is to do the normal flemish twist on both ends.

The second is to use a timber hitch at the bottom.

The third is the unique one that Clay Hayes does in his video, and actually braids it back in to the bottom.

Can anyone enlighten me on the advantages/disadvantages of the 3 methods?

Thanks

[DanielB89]

I always do the top and bottom loop the same.  There are many ways to pluck a chicken.  One must decide which way he wants.  I believe that the cleanest look is brading both the same.  To start off, you don't HAVE to put in your back twists.  It may make your string look worse, but just to learn the process, you don't have to.  If you want to add in back twists, try around 20 or so and that should give you a good starting point.

[Cheezer]

Ya I've seen it done numerous ways with or without back twists, but wouldn't adding the back twists in the body of the string also require more string making it heavier (and slower)?

[LBR]

A timber hitch is good if you don't know what length string you need.  Two Flemish loops looks much better and cleaner to me.

Back twist isn't just for looks.  It also makes a quieter and more durable string.  To get a good idea of how many you need to put in, count how many twists you have to take out to get the bundles hanging straight after the first loop.  Put that many back in, in the opposite direction, and it should get you very close.


Putting in the back twist means the bundles hang straight when you get the second loop finished, so if anything you need slightly less material...but it's not going to be enough either way to affect performance.  

Ever weigh a strand of bowstring?  An 80" piece of white BCY-X weighs a whopping 4 grains.  That's the length used in a 61" Flemish string (give or take).  That's the same weight as a brass nockset.  A few strands of string isn't going to affect performance to any noticeable degree, so a fraction of an inch in bundle length won't either.

[Cheezer]

Haha after I posted that I thought to myself a little extra string is probably negligible anyways, doh. Thanks for setting me straight on the twists guys!

BTW, is that a general rule for the string length?For instance if I need to make a 56" string start with 75" bundles?

[LBR]

That can vary, depending on personal preference.  My jig is set up to give me 9" or so on each end for the loops.

[Cheezer]

Ahh ok. I guess it probably depends on how far down you want the taper to go too. Any advice there?

[LBR]

I like at least a 6" taper, then I continue my tight twist on down for a total of around 10".

[katman]

Chad, LBR, has an excellent dvd available on his website. I started with his original video "Doin the Twist" and love making my own strings now. Prefer 2 flemish loops. As you can see he and Daniel are eager to help people.

[Cheezer]

Man I have crazy respect for people that make strings now. Just spent 3 hours on my first...

Turned out fairly well, but I had to put a bunch of twists in it to get to BH, and about a third the way down the string there's one strand that's bumped out a little. I'm gonna leave it strung for tonight, but overall should I be worried to use it?

[DanielB89]

Depends how many strands you used. In my opinion, no. Shoot it, but that's my opinion.

[Cheezer]

I used 14 stands for a 50# PSE stalker. Feels solid on draw, so I'll serve it up and let er rip. Thanks for the advice guys!

[katman]

Cheezer, nice thing about the flemish string, you can undue one loop and restart a little lower down string to shorten.

What string material you using?

[Cheezer]

Ya I had to do that a couple times, still couldn't find the perfect length pre-twisting. Just using brownell b50.

[DanielB89]

Cheezer,

personally, I would get something without so much stretch.  It is great to learn the process, but it isn't the best to learn precision.  

If it helps, when I finish my strings they are TYPICALLY from 1.5-3" shorter than my desired length depending on what material i'm using.  That is how it works for me when stretching them.  Take that for what it is worth..

[Bud B.]

B50 is THE stretchiest material out there. I just made a B55 string for my Super Kodiak, 60" AMO. My board is set for AMO string length. With B55, I have learned to go to a peg 3" shorter than what I want, given my twist method/style. Each string maker has their own style, just like an oil painting artist. Once you learn you repetitive style, strings become much easier to hit on the first try, but even that is no guarantee. I have a bunch of strings hanging on a peg on which I missed, usually by too long. It has been a while since I hung another on that peg, though.

Make personal notes of length peg used, loop starting point, loop length, taper length and # twists to get there, how many back twists, final loop size, etc., etc., etc...

Like Daniel said, learn with B50 or 55. Missing with other materials gets more costly.

[Cheezer]

Ya Daniel I know what you're saying, but the shop I stopped at only had the one roll of B50. My two newer bows can take fast flight, so I'll move up to it once I get a little more efficient with string making.

I'm definitely going to follow the 1.5-3" shorter advice, I tried to get it even but that clearly isn't the right strategy. I also just measured out the initial strands by hand, so I think making a jig might be a smart move.

[DanielB89]

imo, a Jig is the absolute best way.  I have a jig for everything.  A jig for loop sizes, a jig for serving length, a jig for where to start the loops, a jig for where to end my twists, etc.  

A jig minimizes human error imo.  


To clarify, I don't mean make the string 3" shorter.  I am say that before I stretch my strings, they are around 1.5-3" shorter than the desired length.  For b50, I would shoot for about 2.5" shorter to get it close(just a guess, as i've never used it)

[Caughtandhobble]

Great thread!!!

What a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing guys.  


   

[Cheezer]

I get what you mean with the shorter string, it's just accounting for stretch. Something I did very poorly the first time around.

Another thing that was probably a mistake was using the same color for both bundles (like I said the shop only had the one spool). Makes things so much more difficult, and I won't be trying again until I get another spool of a different color.

Also, what kind of wax do you use? On my first mucked up attempt I used string snot thinking it would work, but it only made things more slippery and didn't seem like it worked like bees wax would.

As always thanks and I appreciate the help!