Long Bow Switch Over

[BCR1985]

Hi Gang,

I've always been a recurve shooter but can recall a few instances when I went into autopilot and botched a chip shot. I know this can happen anytime when you're not going thru proper form, but I've decided to try out a long bow to see if there's any more forgiveness. I've heard they're not as sensitive as a recurve when there is a less than perfect release. Are there any recommendations as to a good basic long bow design that wouldn't break the bank? I've been leaning towards a Bear Montana in #40 but the Bigfoot Flatliner's are really neat looking. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Good hunting,

Ed

[Shadowhnter]

First, I dont think you are going to see a notable difference in forgiveness of each style. Both require form and good releases to get consistently accurate. Its pretty much identical in that aspect. I prefer the feels of a longbow. However I own both RC and LB, and like them both. Trust me, a longbow is not magic, it still requires you shoot it correctly.

As for a suggestion,  id recommend you look at Maddog archerys Prairie Predator. $300 to your door, and you get a choice of woods, and get a very smooth fast and hard hitting bow with no noticable hand shock.

[KeganM]

I don't know about more forgiving, but I find longbows a heck of a lot of fun.

As for bow selections, I'm not a fan of the Montana. For the money, there are better choices. I'd say go for the Flatliner, from what I've heard you won't be disappointed!

[BCR1985]

Thanks, guys! I'll keep researching. My point on the form was that based on what I've heard and the differences in limb design, it would appear that a long bow would provide a slightly more forgiving shot upon release. The reason I state that is the limbs on a recurve are wider and thinner out to the tips on avg. I notice that this thinner limb design makes it easier to twist them if you have a poor release (pluck the string, etc.). Long bow limbs are thicker out to the tips and are much harder to manipulate. Than there's the length. Less of an acute angle at full draw, less finger pinch, not as violent of a release would seem to me to equate to a smoother release with a longer limbed bow. Am I off base here?

[BCR1985]

Also I like the idea of a center cut shelf like my recurves. Seems to provide a better sight picture. Most long bow shelves aren't cut to center. Thoughts?

[Shadowhnter]

I've heard the claims about limb torque, but you would have to really be outta whack on the release for it to be the case.

Less finger pich is largely depending on bow length and particular design, not so much a RC vs LB thing.

Look, im a longbow man, and they are all I shoot now. I heard all the jargon you can find on the net about their advantages over RC, and were part of what made me buy a LB. I found out it was largely bull doodie. With todays designs, there is very little difference trust me.

I like the light weight, nostalgia, how most LB puts the arrow right on your hand, low wrist grip.... Other then just what feels and shoots best for any particular person, there really isnt much difference nowdays. Even length isnt an issue anymore, as I have a 58" r/d LB, and at my 28" draw its very smooth drawing, no stack, and no finger pinch. They are also as fast, or faster then many recurves. Honestly,  it comes down to your preference.

Omega LB are another excellent choice that are great performers that dont break the bank. They have a bit more of a hybrid type grip that resembles a recurve. I prefer low wristgrip, or id have an Omega Original now.

Why do you prefer the center cut shelf?

[BCR1985]

Good points for sure. I prefer the center cut because I suppose that's what I'm used to. It gives me a better sight picture. Do you notice any difference?

[forestdweller]

I disagree with some of the claims that a longbow is going to be just as critical of form as a recurve and not to expect anything magical.

I can shoot now and my arrows go directly where I am pointing the bow instead of having the odd shot go 4-8" to the left because I applied 5% too much pressure to the riser and/or I did not allow the string to slip out of my fingers perfectly holding at full draw for 5-6 seconds.

I shot a longbow without ever having shot one before recently and my accuracy went up considerably shooting arrows that were not even tuned for the bow and a "slow" dracon string.

I can twist my recurve limbs so easily without any effort and to shoot a recurve to it's fullest potential you need a perfect release and to not grip the bow at all or else the limbs WILL throw the arrow off.

Whether the shot is thrown off 1" or 8" depends on how much the limbs were torqued by a less than perfect release and/or depending on how much you gripped the bow.


From what I can tell the longbow favors the opposite.
Due to it's flat broomstick handle it forces you to grab a hold of it and the longbow is a much more pointable and a much more stable bow.

You can't torque the limbs and they are generally longer and those two things increase forgiveness significantly.

As a test try tapping the tip of your recurve limbs and see how much they wobble back and forth and side to side erratically.

A longbow will decrease your left/right misses at least for me it does.

I can't wait to get a fast flight string for it and get some arrows tuned for it.

As for your comment on center shot or not, this longbow appears it though it is not cut past center but it did not decrease my accuracy at all.

My recurve is cut past center and even though longbows can be shot vertical canting them feels much more natural and drops the arrow into your direct line of sight.

Another great thing about longbows is that they do not require silencers, they are already extremely quiet whereas my recurve currently has 4 silencers and limb pads and a high brace height and it's still significantly louder than the longbow with no silencers.

So you might get actually gain some arrow speed if you're used to shooting a recurve that's loaded with padded tips and silencers compared to a longbow with no silencers or maybe a small pair of silencers.

I find there to be no reason to shoot a recurve at this point.

What advantages does a recurve have? It weighs more and perhaps casts an arrow a few fps more IF it has no silencers or padded limb tips at which case it's more than likely loud.

The only thing I can see going for a recurve is that they can be built much shorter but that makes for an even less forgiving bow.

I say give the longbow a try but try to find something cheap maybe $250 max.

Most of the best archers and hunters of the past shot longbows (and current if you take into account Byron), just look at Howard Hill, Byron, The Willhem Brothers (I spelled their last name wrong), and the list goes on and on.

I think a lot of people don't realize how little torque it takes to throw a shot off. There's a reason why the FITA barebow recurve archers and Olympic archers use wrist slings, very heavy risers, and very long stabilizers.

It's to increase the stability of the bow and minimize any amount of torque that takes place throughout the shot cycle.

Also bear in mind those guys are using top of the line carbon/foam limbs that are very expensive and shooting 66-70" bow's.

When two bows using the same materials are compared the longbow is going to naturally be more stable every time due to it's design.

If you have any questions regarding the longbow feel free to ask me as I just started using one for the reasons you mentioned and the people online and offline that talk about how the longbow is much more stable and thus much more forgiving than a recurve are not lying.

Some guys like and shoot longbows better, and some guys like and shoot recurves better. My personal opinion is that which one a particular guy picks  has to do with what kind of grip suits him best. There is not one better than the other, just one is different than the other, so there are choices for folks to make for what is best for them.

Bisch

[BCR1985]

forestdweeller, I'm glad to hear that i'm that the only one with that conclusion. I agree there are some folks who may shoot one design more accurately then the other, but just based on the engineering it would seem to make sense that there's a bit more "absorbtion" going on with the avg longbow vs avg recurve. Of course at the end of the day, nothing replaces good form.

[forestdweller]

What part of NJ are you from? I'd let you try out my longbow if you want.

Feel free to PM me.

[Doc Nock]

Originally posted by Bisch:
Some guys like and shoot longbows better, and some guys like and shoot recurves better. My personal opinion is that which one a particular guy picks  has to do with what kind of grip suits him best. There is not one better than the other, just one is different than the other, so there are choices for folks to make for what is best for them.

Bisch

I like what Forestdweller says and thinks, but I also agree with Bisch's view.

For me, I shoot now a LB and do so with a RC grip! my body mechanics never allowed me to shoot a very low wrist or straight broom handle grip.

Getting a grip that fits you and puts pressure where you need it for your amount of wrist rotation, seems important too! YMMV, which is why it's so cool there are so many people making good bows!

[BCR1985]

Well said. I am noticing a lot of lb designs with a reflex/deflex limb. The pitch is that the reflex adds more power? I prefer the looks of the traditional lb without the reflex. (I'm assuming that means it would just be deflex?) If so, any thoughts?

[Longtoke]

Originally posted by Doc Nock:
 

Originally posted by Bisch:
There is not one better than the other, just one is different than the other, so there are choices for folks to make for what is best for them.

Bisch

I like what Forestdweller says and thinks, but I also agree with Bisch's view.

For me, I shoot now a LB and do so with a RC grip!

Getting a grip that fits you and puts pressure where you need it for your amount of wrist rotation, seems important too! YMMV, which is why it's so cool there are so many people making good bows! [/b]

these things here.  With so many great bowyers and designs there is something out there for everyone. In the end they are all stick bows.  Not a one is magic. Just find something you like and go flick some arrows.

[reddogge]

BCR1985, don't overlook our member who posted in your thread KeganM who makes the Omega line of longbows. They are superb shooters reasonably priced. Give him a call.

[slowbowjoe]

There are several reflex/deflex style longbows made by sponsors here for the same, or less, as the Bigfoot. New, custom made. Or for something quicker, many have bows in stock (they don't always list them. There is also an abundance of excellent used bows, both customs and stock bows, new or old.

Not saying there's anything wrong with either the Bigfoot or the Montana, just that you have loads of good choices for longbows. I do think something with a forward handle and nicely defined locator grip helps the learning curve, and I'll venture to say performance.

And I do support the idea that you should get something you're drawn to; you oughta feel good about your bow. Also, 40#'s is a pretty reasonable weight, and very capable.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by BCR1985:
Well said. I am noticing a lot of lb designs with a reflex/deflex limb. The pitch is that the reflex adds more power? I prefer the looks of the traditional lb without the reflex. (I'm assuming that means it would just be deflex?) If so, any thoughts?

Pretty much all longbow's have some degree of reflex/deflex.

You would not be able to tell the difference between a subtle reflex/deflex longbow and a straight hill style longbow that has no reflex/deflex when they are strung.

All longbow's besides those that are called "hybrids" will have the classic D shape when strung.

Also if you are into the it's more traditional kinda thing a reflex/deflex longbow is actually an older more primitive design than a straight up hill style longbow with zero reflex/deflex.

The Hill style flat limb deep core style of longbow was invented within the last 100 years, the reflex/deflex design has been found in Europe dating back thousands of years ago and was widely used throughout Europe.

I'm not a bowyer but I'd imagine that carving out a piece of wood from a tree and making it perfectly straight is a lot more difficult than carving out a piece of wood that has a very subtle bend in it when unstrung.

I don't see any advantages to shooting one of those deep core completely flat limbed longbows as I can't even torque a very subtle reflex/deflex longbow that's 40#.

I know that Byron shoot's a slight reflex/deflex longbow and I'm sure the majority of longbow shooters in the past did so as well.

[monterey]

Was looking through the used bows at RMSG a couple days ago and saw several Montanas.

[BCR1985]

Thank you all for the input! Learning a lot just reading your posts. Keep them coming!