About to give up the stick and string

[Conan]

I'm sick and tired of not getting pass through's with traditional equipment. I hit a buck last night and didn't get a complete pass through. It was broadside at about 20yds. As it ran off, the arrow appeared to be midway through the ribcage half way up the body. I watched the deer run off about 75yds and cross a creek. I got down right away and as soon as I hit the ground, the sky's opened up. I went to where I last saw the deer and of course because of the rain I didn't find any blood. Since it was almost dark, I didn't want to push it. I have been on too many trailing jobs at night where the deer was pushed and never recovered. I figured I would do a grid or loop search in the morning and despite the rain I'd find it where it bedded down. I looked for 4 hours in every possible direction from where I last saw it and never found it. I suspect that when a deer is hit and the arrow exits out the other side it doesn't know what happened, and as a result it does not panic. This happened last week on a doe I hit. I hit her at dusk and went back the next morning and there she was 150yds from the stand. If on the other hand the arrow stays inside and "flops" around while the deer is running, it panics, and just continues to run until it drops. I hunted with a compound for 10+ years and only had 1 arrow stay inside and that one hit the opposite shoulder. I just don't think that traditional tackle has the kinetic energy to give you pass through shots. I shoot cut on contact Magnus heads so I'm not loosing energy "punching" through the hide.

[pseman]

Man I'm am sorry you had a bad experience but just look at the posts on here about deer that have been taken and you'll see that trad gear is more than adequate to achieve a pass thru. I cannot speak from experience as this is my first season with trad gear, but post after post shows pass throughs on deer, hogs, elk, moose, you name it. I don't know what your set-up is, but if it is tuned well, I'll bet it has the energy to send a sharp broadhead through a deer. You are not going to get a pass through on every shot, but they are certainly not uncommon.

Give yourself a day or two to calm down and then re-evaluate. Check your tuning, check the sharpness of your broadheads, etc. I am sure some other more experienced trad hunters can give you example after example of pass throughs with even light poundage bows.

Hang in there,

Mark

[mmgrode]

If you search this sight and ask experienced stickbow hunters you will find pass through being very common.  

There are so many things that work into penetration but specifically there are a few things you might want to consider concerning equipment:
-What poundage of bow do you shoot?
- Are the broadheads razor sharp, not just kind of sharp?
- Do you get good arrow flight?
- What is the weight of your arrows?
- What arrow material?
- And finally what is your draw length?

If you'd like some good reading on how well a trad bow can penetrate tough animals take a look at Dr. Ashby's reports on broadhead and arrow efficiency.  If guys go after water and cape buffalo and kill them cleanly with trad equipment I see no issue with lighter equipment on thin skinned deer size animals. Also try emailing Paul Brunner about his buffalo or look at the dangerous game forum.

For me the hunting with trad equipment is not just about getting pass throughs and dead deer, but it is about the challenge and satisfaction of chasing game with my own handmade equipment. Now, this is not to say that I don't want to kill the deer cleanly, but I believe my setup to be more than sufficient. If you are still so worried so much about it then go back to the compound.  You won't be having fun if you don't have confidence in what you're shooting.  Matt

[Jason Lester]

Depends alot on your setup. I've seen people talk about getting complete pass throughs with 30lbs. If your shooting a realy light arrow that could be the problem too. A heavier arrow will penetrate better. You don't get as flat of flight but penetration is better.

[SouthMDShooter]

Ya i shot a 48 lb recurve and ive gotten pass throughs on every deer ive shot with it including a 205 pound buck. The most important thing is placement, but what is your set up? maybe we could help but we need that info...Curtis

[tradtusker]

what setup are you shooting??
dont give up on trad just yet.

[hunt it]

Answer the questions above and we can offer some suggestions. I shoot a 64# longbow for big Ontario deer and have had pass throughs on every deer to date. These are big deer not them little Jersey deer you guys have, I've got buddies in Jersey so I know what size deer you have. You are either shooting to light a set up or shot angle is not good. Perhaps your stands are too high up? If we can kill moose with trad gear you can kill Jersey deer.

[Conan]

I have a 63#@28" Big East Recurve. I shoot Carbon Express Heritage 250's (spined for 60-70lbs) and 135 grain Magnus heads. This was the first time I used the 4 bladed head. My stand is 16ft. high.

And thanks for the time, I guess I'm just down from the lost game. I've been hunting 29 years and this is the fourth one I've lost and each time is the same. I really enjoy shooting my recurves and I shoot 3" groups at 25yds.

[non-typical]

Mike,

I've never had a pass-thru on a shot. My freezer is full. It don't make no never mind to me.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Conan,

If you're not getting pass throughs on deer with a 63# Big East, my best guess is that there's a tuning problem somewhere. The first thing I'd do is bareshaft tune your bow. The shooter's forum has a lot of good info on the subject.

Big East recurves had a reputation for speed. My homemade bows don't, so if I had to guess, I'd say you've probably got as much energy in your rig as I had in the one I took to Ontario last September. I got a complete pass through on my bull moose, including splitting a rib on the exit side. If I can do it on a moose, you should be zipping through deer like they're pieces of paper.

Seriously, take some time and bareshaft tune your rig. I think you'll see an amazing difference in penetration as a result.

[AllenR]

Conan,

I don't blame you for being down about losing an animal.  I wouldn't respect anyone who didn't get upset about it.

Unfortunately, I can't offer much advice.  You seem to have enough bow draw weight and heavy enough arrows.  The one thing I would look at is arrow flight.   You can lose a lot of energy if this is not good.

Good luck,
Allen

[Curtiss Cardinal]

Conan Just at a glance I'd say the carbons you are using are right on the border of too weak. You don't mention if you're drawing 28" or less or more nor how long your arrows are; but I'd have to say if you're not getting pass throughs with your set up, like Jason said, you have a tuning problem. I'd also say at a glance your arrows are too light. It looks like less than 8 grains per pound of draw weight. That is almost certainly part of your problem.It appears you still have the wheelbow mind set wanting a light fast arrow. Mass is important in the penetration equation. I have a solution..........
Get yourself some Gold Tip 5575 and front load them. That is to say, put more weight in the head end of the shaft. I shoot a 63# @29" hybrid longbow with 5575s with 400 grains up front. I can pert near gaurantee I'll shoot through anything I hit. Bob Morrison gets complete pass throughs shooting 47# with 300 grains up front.I'd start with 250 grains and work up 20 grains at a time until I had the best flight.

[NDTerminator]

Sometimes a guy has plain ol' bad luck.  I had the same thing happen to me in Canada, but it was a really nice bear and a compound bow. Blood trail washed out over night, unable to recover the bear.  It was found a couple months later about 75 yards further on into the bush from where we lost the trail...

If it's raining or going to rain, I don't deer hunt on those days...

[hunt it]

Conan,

Jason and C2 are onto your problem. I would recommend more up front weight. Try some 160gr STOS with a 125gr steel insert - 285gr up front or use 100gr brass insert. I use 280gr and up to 380gr on all my carbons. You will not believe how well they will fly with all that weight up front. Give it a try, the added kenetic energy should solve tour problem. I'd send you some to try but homeland security would lock me up for sending sharp pointy things cross the border. Good luck.

[JBiorn]

hunt it----I sent some Rocky Mountain broadheads across to Canada. No problem at all.

[Jeff Strubberg]

57# longbow.

550 grain CX250.

Arrow on the ground on the other side of a 170# buck.

I would check your arrow flight first, then take a look at how sharp those heads are.  Sounds to me like you should be hitting dirt on almost every shot with that setup.

[Doc Nock]

...and hestiantly, for reasons I'd rather not go into, check your bow's draw weight on several reliable scales and average them. I had several B.E. that were marked one thing but drew WAAAYYY heavier. The weights were the same on 3 shop scales and 2, come to think of it, bowyer's scales!!!

This would compound (no pun intended) your spine problem since you may already be teetering on the light side...

Spine not only is draw weight, but the amount of center cut on the riser. Just do as suggested and do some bare shaft testing..take your time... find that maximum balance between bow and arrow and watch em zip.

I shoot over 600 gr. arrows outa 48-50# bows and get pass throughs, too.  Shot put vs. wiffle ball stuff, but there are a lot of energy robbing variables in a arrow that isn't behaving well...

Good luck!

[Steertalker]

Conan,

Some good advice has already been offered regarding tuning.  Additionally....you need to be very honest with yourself.....are you really drawing your bow to anchor or is there a chance you might be short drawing during the heat of things???

There is no reason why your setup shouldn't blow through just about anything assuming proper shot placement.  

Brett

[Bjorn]

I agree with everything that was said here about the importance of tuning and arrow weight. Ol Adcock has a very good section on bareshafting and tuning-that would be a good place to go. I hunt from the ground but I'd have a tough time getting both lungs with the difficult angle your stand height presents unless the deer is really far away. Would some expert tree stand hunters comment please?

[Jeff Strubberg]

You know....

Bareshafting is the ultimate answer here. However...


If you are a consistent enough shooter to soot 3" groups, I would recommend shooting a group with your broadheads mounted.  If your arrows are not on the money spin wise, that group is going to grow to 12" or more and show you immediately where the problem lies.

If you are still shooting 3" groups, then arrow spine is not the issue.