Does with Fawns?

[Trenton G.]

Hi guys
I've been out trying to get my first deer with a traditional bow for a long time, but just haven't had the right opportunity. Last night I had a big doe coming in and was getting ready for a shot when I saw that she had a big fawn with her. I elected to pass her, despite her passing broadside at 10 yards from me. After she walked away I was beginning to wonder whether I should have shot or not. What would you guys do? I'm sure the fawn would make it on its own, and I've never seen a doe stick around to protect her fawn. Would you shoot or not?

[mark Willoughby]

i use to shoot does with faws or fawn off does in my younger days i guess the older ive got the more ive gotton away from that but you are right to think the yearling would have been fine i guess its up to how you feel about it but for me personally i let them walk

[meathead]

I would have shot the the fawn.  Tasty piece of meat and the doe gets to have fawns again.

[Michael Arnette]

Technically meathead is absolutely right, taking a doe fawn is much much easier on the herd numbers than taking a mature doe. I judge based on how old the fawns are mostly, if they look pretty good sized they will have a very good servival rate...not quite that of a mature deer but pretty darn good.

[Vesty]

Hunting with traditional gear is a game of opportunity. For the most part, shot possibilities can be sparse and,therefor,must be taken. Given a scenario where I was presented a shot at a doe and yearling together, I would probably choose the yearling for the above mentioned reasons. I learned the hard way early on that passing on a shot opportunity doesn't insure another chance down the road.

[ChuckC]

Yes, from a 'technically" standpoint, the fawns are much more likely to die during the first year, especially during the winter, than the doe. She is bigger, stronger and smarter about the ways of the world.  As Petersen puts it in his writing, fawns are born to die.  

I hunt public and I don't ever get to see the numbers that some of you speak of.  One or two deer sightings per night of sit is a good stretch !  

While working, I used to take what was given to me because my time was very short and I had many habits that all happened in the fall.  

As a retired fart now, I have held back, but after a life time of taking what comes, it is a struggle every time (in my mind) to let things walk.

It is all in our head of course and the right answer (for you) is the one you currently espouse.

[Gordon Jabben]

It's your call.  Here in Oklahoma, the Noble foundation did a whitetail deer management project and found in their studies, a fawn had a slightly better survival rate without her mother.  Go figure.  The study doesn't say how old the fawns were when they were put on their own.

[Sam McMichael]

I don't shoot fawns, nor the does with them. Since I can no longer eat venison, I have become very picky. Mostly I want a mature buck. Now, you guys that have freezers to fill and families to feed, go for what you think is right.

[Pine]

No problem , shoot the big doe .
Keep in mind , if you shoot a doe that is all alone , you probably didn't see the fawn that was with her .
They are not humans , they have no remorse over each other . If you ever get the chance to see deer after one has been shot , the others will go back to eating as if nothing happened .

I attended a seminar put on by TPWD biologists. This seminar was geared towards rifle hunters, but I did get some info out of it that pertains to your question. The biologist told us that TPWD had done mortality rate studies, and that the mortality rate for fawns without the does (if the doe was taken later that the season opening date)was essentially the same as with the does. The biologist recommended shooting a doe with a fawn as opposed to shooting a lone "doe" that could actually be a nubbin buck mistaken for a doe (remember, I said the seminar was geared towards rifle hunters).

I personally don't worry about it as long as the fawn has lost all its spots and is totally weaned.

Bisch

[Bowwild]

Shoot whichever one you want and can use. If you are trying to build your local herd (sizable private land) you might choose to let em all go.

The one that presents the best shot is the one I would shoot.  Some might disagree but I've been known to shoot the smaller deer if multiple are present, especially if I have a long way to solo drag.

While deer have been documented to be born every month of the year, the vast majority are born in late spring/early summer. They are fine on their own by the time every deer season opens.

Early in my career I worked a lot of agency deer check stations. I recall seeing a few guys who brought in fawns catch grief from fellow hunters. I always intervened and explained the biological implications to support the hunter who killed the smallish deer. In the north, these smaller deer are among the first to succumb to problems caused by deep snows.

By the way, one of "nature's ways" to disperse the gene pool, is for the Doe to  drive off button bucks (male fawns) in the fall/early winter.  Kill the doe, keep the buck.

[bear bowman]

Trenton, I've been struggling with the same thing. I have let a few walk this year as well because of fawns being with them.
It comes down to a few things I guess. Your own personal feelings/ethics. Your need to kill/fill the freezer.
In my young days I had a need to kill. I killed my fair share of does that had fawns with them. In most of my cases, the fawns stuck around looking lost and as I aged that started to bother me a bit.
So now I let them walk.

[Red Beastmaster]

I zero in on the largest deer I have in front of me regardless of what it is.

[Trenton G.]

Ok, thanks guys. I think that if she or another doe comes by and gives me a shot, I'll take it. Obviously I would love to shoot a buck, but there aren't a whole lot of deer up here on public land, and I'm not sure how many opportunities  like that I will get. The only piece of private that I have access to has very few deer, so I'll let does walk there.

[Pine]

Originally posted by Red Beastmaster:
I zero in on the largest deer I have in front of me regardless of what it is.

Exactly !

[Shadowhnter]

Here in a week or two, the doe will kick her fawn away anyhow when she comes into heat. They wont see each other for the better part of a month.... and maybe never. Id take either deer with a clear conscience. Here, I might shoot them both if I played it right.

[IndaTimber]

Smaller bucks will get a pass but not a doe, no matter if there are fawns or not. To clarify my statement on smaller bucks, in Ohio we are only allowed one buck per year.

[YosemiteSam]

Agreed with previous posters about taking the fawn (where legal).  Mortality is very high for the young.  For the vast majority of human history, infant mortality among our own species hovered around 40% (hence the low life expectancy figures prior to modern medicine and penicillin).  Personally, I'd feel much better about taking the fawn than the doe.  Fawns that still need guidance are often unable to join up with another doe.  Sometimes it happens but often, it doesn't and it fails to recognize danger signs or other necessary, learned behaviors needed to survive into adulthood.    The doe will pass on her knowledge of that death to her next fawn and she has already proven her ability to survive.  The fawn still has a lot to learn and only has a coin-flip odds of survival.  Besides, it probably tastes better.

I disagree with the assertion that they don't feel sadness or attachments to each other.  It isn't expressed the same as humans but the "distress" of loss has been documented by biologists.  There's an interesting documentary on Netflix or Amazon about a biologist that spends a couple years living with a mule deer herd in Wyoming.  He gets pretty attached to the herd and is accepted as a satellite member of the herd.  He has a number of interesting observations.  Granted, it's not the most scientific -- anecdotal at best.  But it's certainly a fair dose of evidence in contradiction to the idea that they can't feel distress, loss or attachment.  It doesn't stop me from hunting, though.  All life requires death.  It just highlights our need to take our hunting methods seriously and with reverence.  Sneaking in under a deer's defenses at stick-bow range is about as fair as fair gets in the wild.

[ron w]

I'm in an area that can have very hard winters, hence I would shoot the fawn or yearling as it may not make the winter. That being said I have yet to kill a deer with my bow and will take any deer that gives me a shot. After I get one......then I will get picky. I have been trying for a looooonnnnnggggg time.

[bluemoonrising]

She probably had twin fawns, but the button is starting to venture out on his own. So, that means the fawns probably can make it on their own. Also, I have read that other mature does often take in fawns. Finally, you can't beat the quality of meat from a yearling. Have fun!