DAS, ILF, Riser size - Oh my!

[Trad Matt]

Hello all!

I am experiencing a massive brain overload pondering my next bow and I hope to cover a lot in one post so please bear with me (TL;DR below). I currently only have solid bows but I enjoy the idea of a TD as well as a metal riser and of course the limb change benefits. I want to hunt but also more time will likely be spent doing 3D and target shooting (to be more proficient hunting of course). While I am trying to find a balance I have begun to like the thought of a shorter bow with the use of a 17" riser but was originally shopping 21" then 19". I'm sure you can begin to understand the overload.

I have a 27" draw so I believe all of these options will work. I shoot instinctively so I don't care much about a sight window, I don't think. How much sight window is given on each option? I can measure the two solid bows I have to compare. I want to shoot off the shelf and care little about fancy attachments. I enjoy the purity of barebow - may change as I desire more and more accuracy.

I originally started my shopping with the Hoyt Excel - $200 or less in mind. It is very attractive but a little longer than I thought I wanted after hearing 19" is  a great all around (I also have read where 17" is some people's favorite). The 17" opened the door to the Dalaa which is DAS or ILF. From what I can find people say the DAS is quieter, more tuneable and ILF limbs can be changed for DAS easily. That lead me to the Morrison 17" Or 19" which I hear can also come as DAS and has a radiased shelf. Both either utilize or come with a plunger (correct?). I imagine Bob's would be better off the shelf?

So here I sit. Pondering - ILF or DAS as both the higher end bows can go either way. Then is it worth twice the price of the Excel? It's funny how a $200 budget for riser shopping can quickly turn to $400. I haven't even gotten to the limb selection yet but I imagine it's another $300 easy.

Sorry to make another thread I search heavily and never find the answers I'm looking for. Hopefully this will be a good  for others in a similar position.

TL;DR - Opinions on ILF vs DAS, 17",19" or 21" (cheaper) for hunting / 3D. Dalaa, Morrison, Excel etc.

Thanks all!!

[fireball31]

I am posting only to make it easier to follow this thread, as I am in a very similar quandry

[ron w]

I never have had a DAS, but I have had and still several ILF set ups. Morrison, Trad Tech, Zipper, Dyrad all offer great risers. Limbs, you have a bunch to choose from......$99 - $699. Don't be afraid to buy used ILF limbs, some real bargins on very good limbs. Have fun in your search.

[Trad Matt]

Originally posted by ron w:
I never have had a DAS, but I have had and still several ILF set ups. Morrison, Trad Tech, Zipper, Dyrad all offer great risers. Limbs, you have a bunch to choose from......$99 - $699. Don't be afraid to buy used ILF limbs, some real bargins on very good limbs. Have fun in your search.

Do you have a preference between those? I'm pretty sure they are all in a similar price range - not sure about the Zipper. Which riser size do you prefer? Thanks for the input!

[longbow fanatic 1]

I have the Morrison 17" Gen 3 riser, which I bought used. It's a great riser. IMO, it has a generous riser window. I've shot it with the TT Black Max (Samick) limbs and just ordered a set of the TT Black Max 2.0 limbs in medium, which makes the bow 60" AMO. Like you, I shoot off the shelf and the Morrison Gen 3 riser has two plunger/springy rest holes.

[Trad Matt]

Do you need to have or use a springy plunger with it or does the traditional rest set up work as well? I am really leaning heavily toward the Morrison 17" as I don't see the need for a larger sight window. Not sure what the benefits are for instinctive shooting.

[Caughtandhobble]

All I can add is, I find it hard to beat the Hoyt Excel Riser. Yes, I have owned the DAS. I do have a longer draw than you but I simply like the Hoyt the best of all of the ILF risers that I have owned and shot.... All this said, I mostly shoot my PLX Longbow.

Good Luck in your search, ILF is very fun to shoot and play with. My son would not sell his Hoyt Excel for any amount.  


   

[Trad Matt]

A part of me considers getting the Excel first and others later. Though I could get one of the others first and the Excel later. This is harder than deciding on car parts and similar to guitars. I guess I'll never have an easy hobby.

I love the input everyone! Keep it coming!

[Schmidty3]

well im going through the same thing....although im a few steps further along then you.

I just got a DAS DX5 (15" riser), and I paired it with the cheap $100 wood/glass trad tech black max limb. (i've shot it at 3 yds in my apartment...don't tell the landlord!)

Im going to play with a stick on elevated rest and a das shorty plunger. Mainly just to learn and see if I like that system, since i've never tried it before. (but id also like to use the same arrows as my other bow for now).

I don't think you'll have any issues with sight window size on the 17", if you go 13" or 15" you may. Especially since you shoot instinctive, which I assume means split finger.

My main "academic" goals are to set the bow up for 3 under fixed crawl and adjust the tiller to quiet the bow (current bow is loud with a  fixed crawl), see if I like the metal riser, see if I like the adjustability of the DAS system, and to see if I like the plunger system.

My main "practical" goals are to create an "ultimate hunting bow"!!!!        

I want to cast a 600-650 gr arrow with great authority, awesome trajectory, exceptional accuracy, while being whisper quiet. So im playing with the 55# trad tech cheapo limbs (which actually seem like a good limb!), if they wont do what I need i'll probably upgrade to a dryad ACS (RC or LB) or a zipper Z4 limb of a higher poundage.

[M60gunner]

I like my Excel riser but have shot DAS bows as well. IF I had the the bucks I would go with the new DAS Tribute riser and Zipper limbs. My second choice would be for limbs the Border Hex 7.5.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by Trad Matt:
Do you need to have or use a springy plunger with it or does the traditional rest set up work as well? I am really leaning heavily toward the Morrison 17" as I don't see the need for a larger sight window. Not sure what the benefits are for instinctive shooting.

You can use any rest configuration you want. I don't use a plunger or springy rest. I spoke to Mr. Morrison and he suggested using small, circular furniture leg pads as a strike plate. You can buy them at most hardware stores. Thats what I use and I just build the strike plate out as needed to tune my arrows, shooting right off the shelf.

[Trad Matt]

Not sure how to multi quote.

Schmidty - Great into. I actually shoot 3 under, just works better for me. How do you like the DX5? Had you used ILF? Any comparison.

M60 - I don't have that kind of budget. Sadly.

Longbow - How do you like the size of the riser? Did you put anything on the shelf like felt etc.? Do you have photos of it together with limbs?

[Schmidty3]

Sorry Matt! Cant really answer your questions. This is my first bow with any sort of standardized limb and with tiller adjustability......I got it on Tuesday! Converting the limbs from ilf to DAS was pretty simple and straightforward once I figured out what I was looking at. I went with the DAS because I've read its quieter. And that's the whole point of this bow. Have a quiet shooting bow when using a 3 under fixed crawl method.

I went with the 15" riser because I have a 27-27.5" draw and want a sub 62" bow (my current bows are 62"). The 15" riser with long limbs is right around there I think. The trad tech limbs I got were mediums I think. The bow is 58" right now.

It seems like you can have more limb and less riser, or more riser and less limb for a given draw length. Im not sure whats actually most efficient. But my brain says a having a longer limb should be smoother and more efficient at storing and delivering energy. But that's conjecture at best. Probably depends greatly on the actual limbs design.

[Trad Matt]

With a 15" riser you can go to a 56" bow with super shorts. At our draw most all  sizes should . I hear shorter limbs provide more speed. I like the idea of a sub 60" bow. Just a question of is it enough window and DAS or ILF. If Bob still makes them in DAS.

Any photos of your setup Schmidty?

[longbow fanatic 1]

Here is  pic of the riser. My new limbs are on the way, so I have no pics of the riser with limbs attached.

   

[Trad Matt]

Did you order it all solid? Looks good!

[longbow fanatic 1]

I bought it used. I'm not sure if this model ever came in any other colors. The Gen 3 riser is discontinued.

[longbow fanatic 1]

I bought it used. I'm not sure if this model ever came in any other colors. The Gen 3 riser is discontinued.

[ron w]

Sorry I got back to you so late......I like my Zipper 17". I just got a 13" Zipper but have not shot it much yet. The Morrison's I have and have had were good also, I like the wood ones best. Any of the risers are good if the grip fits your style of shooting.

[katman]

For a fixed crawl setup I would suggest the longer riser/bow, will help in making it quiet. My vote is for the DAS 17" with das connection. If your looking for as quiet as you can get pick up a used set of Dryads acs longbow limbs.