FOC v EFOC ?

[Pine]

Question is , which arrow stabilizes quicker ?
I'm wondering which one is better for short shots , like less than 10 yards ?

[Longtoke]

hmm maybe you could test it through paper tuning. Set out 3 or 4 papers, space them out every couple yards and shoot through them.

Assuming the paper doesn't mess up the flight...


IDK if its just in my head but it seems my broadhead arrows stabilize faster than field points.

[Pete McMiller]

It is my understanding that the higher the FOC, the faster an arrow stabilizes.  I haven't proven it to myself but rely on fellow shooters.  In my case I shoot an arrow with 31.5% FOC - UEFOC - that hardly even wiggles at all according to guys I shoot with.  "Flies like a dart"

[ChuckC]

I.m not sure either necessarily does.  Correct tuning ( arrow to bow, or bow to arrow), whichever "C" you choose, is likely the best answer.

And then, as above, test them at the ranges you are curious about.  An arrow that flies sidewise at 5 yards is worthless to you if you are shooting at less than ten yards.  It also shows that your tuning is not yet completed.
ChuckC

[Longtoke]

Another idea might to use a slow motion camera to watch the arrows in flight.

[Pine]

My thinking on this is , to get EFOC you need a stiffer arrow and more weight up front .
So the stiffer arrow should stop oscillating quicker .
Anybody agree with that though ?

[ChuckC]

Maybe, as long as it is tuned to not start in the first place.  If it kicks out on release it has to recover, even if it is perfectly stiff and not bending.

I am thinking that to recover, it goes thru a series of corrections, not just one.

[Friend]

Ultra EFOC as compared to mid range Hi FOC.

Likely splitting hairs when comparing mid range EFOC to Ultra EFOC.

[Longtoke]

Originally posted by Friend:
Ultra EFOC as compared to mid range Hi FOC.

Likely splitting hairs when comparing mid range EFOC to Ultra EFOC.

This is where I'm at without being able to sink these sticks into more critters.


I have 2 arrow set up tuned out for my bow, one is a 400 spine 30.5" arrow with 250gn up front, about 25% foc

the other is a 500 spine 27.5" arrow with 300gn up front  30% foc


the 30% arrows are actually about 30 grains lighter than the 25% arrows but I was able to make up most of the difference with a little spray paint on the front 10" of the point and shaft.


I have not done any scientific testing but to my naked eye it seems the 30% foc arrows are more forgiving of a poor release.,,


I am very interested to hear the opinion of others on this topic though.

[Shadowhnter]

I think higher focs want to stabilize a bit quicker. However I believe that tuning, and a clean release have more bearing upon quick arrow recovery then foc does.

[forestdweller]

I'm not sure but one thing I do know is that EFOC tend's to be wacky to tune to and give more nock high than a mid range FOC.

I'd imagine that a mid range FOC would shoot best at close distances (anything under 20%) and at longer distances too (the tail end won't blow all over the place at longer distances since the actual arrow, not the point, will be heavier with a mid range FOC).

I could be wrong but that's my take on it.

[Bobaru]

This is an interesting subject.  

A couple years back, I figured that I wasn't as interested in which stabilized best or first because I couldn't prove it anyway.  My interest was more on penetration at short distances.

I did a bunch of tests at 5 yards into new targets.  I couldn't see any difference between arrows.  I'm sure there was some difference, but none that would prove statistically significant.  And I believe the reason is because Shadowhnter is correct - there are other more important factors taking over such as release, etc.

Anyway, with whitetails short shots are tough to get.  My closest was 9 yards a couple, from the ground, years back.  He turned his head, I drew maybe 6 inches, and he scrammed out of there....  Those ears are mighty good at hearing arrows slide across risers....

[Pete McMiller]

My experience with carbon shafts is just the opposite of Foretdweller.  I find EFOC and UEFOC very easy to tune as they respond very well to changes.  I haven't done it with aluminum or wood shafts so maybe they are more difficult.

If they show nock left (rt hand shooter) and right of your aiming point they are weak and need their length trimmed.  When you do they will march right across the target toward the middle as you cut more off.  If nock high, lower your nocking point, works every time.  When I am done tuning my bare shafts are straight into the target.

I have some tapered Alaskan carbons, 200 grains of adapter and head up front.  Out of one longbow they are the fastest recovering things I have ever seen. I bought them for a RH Super K and they flew radically to the right out of it. Out of all my other longbows, a couple that are with in a couple of pounds of that one Hill style bow they fly terrible, all of my bows have identical sight window depths except my dual shooter.  I don't have that with wood arrows.  Is it just me or do carbon arrows have a rather narrow performance window?

[Chain2]

I've been thinking about this stuff. Some of it makes sense and some of it doesn't. I know if you are green, have a long draw and want a lot of weight up front, you can be like a dog chasing his tail. I have and in some instances, I'm still fighting it. I think it's relative. More head weight equals more resistance to force applied. Thus the need for a stiffer arrow. Stiffer arrows occillations would be more severe and harder to correct. I think that there is a sweet spot with all the variables including the human element. I started out thinking that I really needed to load the front of the arrow. I don't anymore. Of course this could be the result of the biggest variable, my ability.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by Pete McMiller:
My experience with carbon shafts is just the opposite of Foretdweller.  I find EFOC and UEFOC very easy to tune as they respond very well to changes.  I haven't done it with aluminum or wood shafts so maybe they are more difficult.

If they show nock left (rt hand shooter) and right of your aiming point they are weak and need their length trimmed.  When you do they will march right across the target toward the middle as you cut more off.  If nock high, lower your nocking point, works every time.  When I am done tuning my bare shafts are straight into the target.

I've put a 300 grain point on a .500 spine arrow that's 29.5" long and it was still reading stiff out of a 45# longbow drawn to about 44#.

 There was almost no difference in stiffness between the 125 grain point I was using and the 300 grain point. According to the STU calculator the arrows are spined about 30# with a 300 grain point.

I've heard others get false stiff readings with very heavy points as well trying to build their own EFOC arrows.

I'm currently using .670 spine arrows with a mid range FOC and they have excellent penetration and hit like a brick.

I think the EFOC thing might be slightly over rated and as close to perfect arrow flight as you can get and as sharp of a broadhead as you can get is probably far more important I'd imagine.

We also have to factor in when building an EFOC arrow most are normally using a light weight shaft which could break upon impact with bone and just be more fragile in general.

I personally prefer a well built durable arrow.

I haven't done any extensive testing on this stuff but plan on to in the future (primarily seeing the effects of wind on an arrow using EFOC vs a heavier shaft that has a mid to high FOC).

[Mike Bolin]

I shoot a .400 Beman Hunter at 29" to bop with a 100 grain brass insert and a 250 screw in point out of my 54#@28" and 53#@28" Widow PL longbows and I get the best flight of any combination I have tried in 30+ years of shooting traditional bows. Very forgiving of a poor release and only one time have I not had a complete pass thru on whitetail, caribou and a hog.
A good friend was having issues recently with arrow flight after choosing a shaft from one of the charts. He bareshafted with one of my shafts a couple of weeks ago aand was afraid the arrow wouldn't hit the target. Other than nose hevy flight, the shaft flew like a dart, other than hitting lower than he was accustomed to. Set him up with some of my arrows and added 125 grain adapters to his 125 grain glue on broadheads and he is extremely pleased.

[AZ_Longbow]

hundreds of shots a week, and I must say for me EFOC and UFOC arrows tune just like any other. take you time shoot right and you can get them shooting perfectly. you cant out thing the arrow, you need to shoot and see. right now I shoot a 57lb McBroom longbow. with one set I am at 27+% foc, and another cut .5" shorter with a bit heavier point I am at 35% foc. they hit much better for me than my 15%foc arrows in the same weight range. all of them run 550gr-666gr.
the efoc is my preference and now all by broadheads are 200-300gr. and some get 50-100gr inserts added. I try to stay in the 10-12gpp range.

[Skates]

I'm so glad I don't have a problem with penetration so I don't have to worry and nit pick over this type of hoop-la.