Penetration concerns.

[Ram_n_arrows]

I' started a thread earlier about switching from compound to recurve.
While it peaks my interest, something happened yesterday that may have altered that. My buddy shot a doe at 5 yards on the ground with his compound. He was using a swhacker 2" broadhead, had a complete pass through and the deer ran 20 yards and flopped. Blood bath scene.

My other buddy shot a decent buck last night with his compound. 8 yards away quartering away angle. He hit a little forward and got some shoulder scapula. He is using 2" nap kill zones which are a rear deploying head. He got 8" or so of penetration and we never found his Deer after tracking 300 yards last night and grid searching today.

This has me second guessing the power or recurve.  How do they do on shoulder scapula hits ?  The shoulder knuckle is about impenetrable from even the fastest compounds so that's not a concern.

[Leinsg91]

If you  want penetration speed has a lot less to do with penetration than weight.  Most trad guys are hunting with very heavy arrows compared to compound. I was in the same boat as you when I switched over, if your concerned with penetration issues you may have take a look at the ashby reports here on the main page. Tons of great info regarding penetration.

And to answer  your question more directly,  I am much more confident in my penetration that I get with my longbow than I was with compound. I haven't had a scapula hit yet (sure it'll happen eventually) but I did spine a buck this year and completely shattered it which I've seen compound guys make the same shot and not actually break the spine.  

There is not an animal in North America that a properly tuned 50# bow could not humanly kill imo.

Don't let this turn you away from this, I have gotten more enjoyment out of shooting trad than I could have possibly imagined.  Stick with it bud

[K.S.TRAPPER]

First I have to ask, Please tell me your not going to be shooting exspandables?

Tracy

[vintage-bears]

Well said

[Ram_n_arrows]

Originally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:
First I have to ask, Please tell me your not going to be shooting exspandables?

Tracy

Lol funny.  No, I'm actually looking into the Magnus buzzcuts (shot my first deer with one at 15 years old), or Simmons land shark.

I shoot expandable out of my compound but my bow is greatly tuned and I'm using heavy arrows for the momentum factor.

[Ram_n_arrows]

Originally posted by Leinsg91:
If you  want penetration speed has a lot less to do with penetration than weight.  Most trad guys are hunting with very heavy arrows compared to compound. I was in the same boat as you when I switched over, if your concerned with penetration issues you may have take a look at the ashby reports here on the main page. Tons of great info regarding penetration.

And to answer  your question more directly,  I am much more confident in my penetration that I get with my longbow than I was with compound. I haven't had a scapula hit yet (sure it'll happen eventually) but I did spine a buck this year and completely shattered it which I've seen compound guys make the same shot and not actually break the spine.  

There is not an animal in North America that a properly tuned 50# bow could not humanly kill imo.

Don't let this turn you away from this, I have gotten more enjoyment out of shooting trad than I could have possibly imagined.  Stick with it bud

I'm well aware using trad gear needs heavy arrows.
How heavy of an hour should I use?  
I'm either gunna be using a bear grizzly 50 or 55lb bow. My draw length is about 26.5. I want to be right around 50lbs.

[BRONZ]

I also agree with Leinsg91...it's more about weight (and shot placement), than speed.
Frankly, I see a lot of TV guys not getting a pass through with their compounds and I'm guessing it's because they're shooting very light arrows in order to flatten their trajectory.
You'll see that many trad guys use point weights that can meet or exceed 160+ grains--I've got 225 up front and total arrow weight is 500 grains out of a 46 lb recurve. This gives me added kinetic energy, especially at longer distances.
Likewise, like Tracy is pointing out, mechanicals are generally frowned upon by traditional shooters--they rob you of too much KE.
You need a heavy, cut-on-contact, fixed blade broadhead at the business end of a heavy, properly tuned arrow, being shot at game taking into account all ethical decisions, i.e. know the limitations of you and your equipment under specific circumstances.
I shoot the Magnus Snuffer SS and generally get full pass-thru's. When taking on hogs, I'll switch to the 2-blade Stinger with bleeders to combat their thick hides.
Above all, like Leinsg91 stated, enjoy this journey my friend! You won't be disappointed!

-Manolito

[buckeyebowhunter]

About a 500gr arrow

[Michael Arnette]

I had the same concerns when I switched. Now I use efficient broadheads and enjoy better penetration than most compounds would have with expandables.
If you are concerned with penetration I would recommend a long lean broadhead in of 2 or 3 blade type and stay over 500 grains in arrow weight.

This year I have enjoyed total pass through or two holes on everything...for whitetails I don't think I've ever had a "one hole" scenario

[Pine]

Don't over think things , trad gear is much more efficient at putting energy into the arrow .
It's also a different game .
Hopefully you will stick with it and you will get confidence in your equipment .
I still run into people that don't think you can kill anything with with trad gear .

[Arctic Hunter]

I've shot a few deer in the shoulder. In my experience, the penetration I've had with 56-57 lb recurves shooting arrows between 567-597 grains, has been much better than deer I've shot in the same places with a compound (at much higher weights).

I wouldn't advocate aiming at the shoulder on a deer, but I will say I've never hit one there and not had two holes. Until I started shooting trad, I never understood the value of a heavy arrow.

[Ram_n_arrows]

Awesome guys.  I just want to know my arrow will give me two holes if I do my part.

Typed in some arrow numbers in the dynamic spine calculator.
My bows gunna be a bear grizzly with a 26.5" draw at 50lbs.
How's a Easton axis 500. With a 75gr. Insert at 535 grain finished weight sound?  
That's paired with a 165gr. Simmons land shark.
I want a set up that will give me two holes, but also leave good blood.

[BRONZ]

That'll punch a nasty wound channel! Go stick one!

[newhouse114]

Ok, I knocked both shoulder blades off of the shoulder joint of a deer with a two blade broadhead, 820 grain arrow, traveling at 165 fps.

[Flatstick]

If you want some graphic poof of the penetrating ability of traditional equipment zoom in on the buck in this photo. Good pics of this buck can be seen in highlights under Surprise Buck. I shot this buck a few days ago with a longbow and a solid three blade head. Penetrated the right scapula and stuck in the offside leg. He hobbled 10yds and fell over.
 

[Daz]

Originally posted by newhouse114:
Ok, I knocked both shoulder blades off of the shoulder joint of a deer with a two blade broadhead, 820 grain arrow, traveling at 165 fps.

Wait! Aren't you a kindred spirit knuckle dragger that shoots 65lb+ bows...? It's not fair to compare performance and show what heavy weight arrows from heavy bows will do.
Everyone knows that will start some dirt slingin'...(typed with tongue planted firmly in cheek and lopsided grin on my goofy face).

[Ram_n_arrows]

820 grains at 165 is heavy. Like shooting a log through the bow.

[Tajue17]

I have tons of arrows and I shoot all around your bows weight range, I have bare shafts, I wish you where closer we'd figure out real quick what your bow likes..

if you can make it to Whitman, Ma.  Zan at Traditional Archery Supply can help you too they have an indoor range and many arrows to try its traditional only there.  and if you like stingers he also has a huge over stock of stinger two blades brand new for 15.00 a pack.

[calgarychef]

Want to really see some disturbing stuff, go on YouTube and watch compound kill shots...video after video with minimal penetration.  I've never had only 8" of penetration with recurve or longbow. I also don't aim for the shoulder and take broadside or quartering away shots, so it's not much of an issue.

[KSCATTRAPR]

I shot clear through both shoulders on my buck last year with a zwickey delta, this year, I did the same thing except the arrow exited through the offside leg because of the angle. Between my broadhead, my steel adapter, weighted insert, and footing, I have close to 225 grains up front on an Easton axis traditional arrow. I'm Shooting close to 49 lbs out of my longbow.

 With a razor sharp head and a perfectly tuned arrow, traditional equipment can penetrate just as good, and in some cases better than a compound in my opinion.