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Author Topic: Sad times for hunting  (Read 2496 times)

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2016, 04:13:00 PM »
It is still that way where I hunt and I even added some more area this fall

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline Shadowhnter

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2016, 04:13:00 PM »
Unless a handle is gotton ahold of on CWD, all the money in deer hunting will tank anyway in the not so far future. Who here is willing to risk eating deer meat that has a higher risk of being infected with CWD? The authorities only will say, that as of right now there is no known risk to humans consuming infected deer, but do not say its no risk. Unless something more concrete is established, and a more aggressive way of control happens, deer hunting is about to take a major change. Its beginning to spreading more rapidly with recent test results here in Kansas. So far, mainly the west half, but only a few short years ago it was only a few Counties. Many of our children or grandchildren  may have a hard time even finding deer, let alone a place to hunt them. Scary thought....

Online stagetek

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2016, 04:26:00 PM »
It's been "hunt only your own" in my neck of the woods for a long time, I'm saying at least the past 20 yrs. or so. Just the way it is. Trailing a wounded animal is a different story. But, hunting...no way.

Offline pdk25

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2016, 04:33:00 PM »
I guess I wasn't as lucky regarding public land as some.  Grew up pretty poor, but at least Pennsylvania had alot of public land.  It was farm country, and even in the 70's and early 80's, it was easy to see what happened.  The farms got sold and developed, and the small amount of land that was available to hunt went away.  Realized at an early age that if you want to essentially guarantee that you have a place to hunt that wasn't public land, that you needed to buy it.

Offline Sam McMichael

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2016, 05:06:00 PM »
I think a couple of factors are at work here.

1. Many properties are being gobbled up by groups specifically managing the property to make a profit.

2. Many smaller landowners, largely due to the bad economy, simply need to charge a fee just to help to hang on.

As much as I understand the cold hard facts of the need to watch the costs, I sure do miss the days when you just called a neighbor and asked to hunt. Generally, he just said to be careful and make sure to close gates. Neighborliness just isn't as commonplace as it once was.
Sam

Online Cory Mattson

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2016, 05:15:00 PM »
It is NOT greedy to want to hunt your own land and expect others to stay off. If you think just because you hunt and you happen to be near someone else's land and somehow this entitles you to access??? No that is called mooching. If you own land and want to share it go for it. I started hunting in 1970 and was taught first thing to secure permission on private land by asking for the privilege. Paying a fee is nothing more than participating with the landowner to pay taxes.  
Traipsing around on other peoples land is bad manners at a minimum.
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Offline hawkeye n pa

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2016, 05:16:00 PM »
Well said Longbowman, and I couldn't agree more.    

I have a neighbor that has always allowed me to  hunt his property (40+years), but the other hunters he has recently given  permission to tosses me off.  Its not worth the arguement.lol
Jeff
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Online Bigriver

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2016, 05:30:00 PM »
"Sad, but true, and now the Republicans want to sell off our federal lands or give them to the states, who aren't financially equipped to manage them, and will in turn sell them off to balance their budgets."

Wow Orion, liberals never miss an opportunity to take a partisan/political drive by swipe, when the issue is really non political. This issue is the fault of one political party over another?  

Sorry, but that is baloney and a pretty shameful post that doesnt belong here imo.

How about all the hunting land that has been sewed up by Tom Brokaw, or Ted Turner? How about all the land around Boulder CO in open space off limits to hunting. Not too many republicans on the CO open space board I can assure you.

Go to the front range and look at the sprawl that has taken so much land away from hunting. Are all the houses and shopping centers owned by republicans?

How many Hollywood liberal democrats have bought huge ranches in Montana, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming and stopped all the hunting there but by a select few?

It cuts both ways in this. It is a social/ societal problem, not a political one. But you already knew that.
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Offline Bowwild

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2016, 05:53:00 PM »
Landowners here in KY have strong protection if they allow hunting for free.  As soon as they charge though the liability and goes up.

Here's a link where you can see some of the states with the best protection for landowners which encourages them to allow, non-lease use of their property:  

 http://huntingheritage.org/legal/featured-statutes

In my experience, lots of landowners simply want to get enough to cover part of their annual property taxes. But, when they do that they except more risk.

Offline Orion

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2016, 06:18:00 PM »
It's not fake news, Brian, it's the truth.  I'm hoping our prez elect, because he doesn't see eye-to eye with a lot of Republicans, and because at least one of his own kids hunts, may be able to thwart those efforts.  We'll see.

Offline YosemiteSam

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2016, 06:45:00 PM »
I've never known those days.  Seems more like a fairy tale to me than reality.  I don't doubt your experience in the least.  It's just so far removed from my own.  A buddy of mine is a pastor in a small town out of state.  He always seems to know somebody who will let him hunt their blind, tree stand, etc. on private land.  The ethic is still there.  It's just not one I've experienced myself.

I agree about the "hog problem."  Seems as though everybody wants in on the action to have a hog hunting lease as a revenue generator than to actually exterminate them as an invasive species.  Even our own fish/wildlife department went from 5 tags for about $8 many years ago to $23 each now.  If they truly wanted to take down the invasive species, they would have to make them commercially worthless.  If they were suddenly all cost (via crop damage), I'd bet that farmers would wipe them out pretty darned fast.  As of now, there's just too much money to be made in keeping them alive and well.

Funny thing is that I can hunt out of state with the same friend for about $800 all-in (airfare & license).  I can take up to 6 deer, a few pigs, turkey, etc.  Or I can drive 90 minutes from my house, pay $600 for a coin-flip odds at one pig.  So far, I'd rather pay the extra $200 and spend some time with an old friend and his family.
"A good hunter...that's somebody the animals COME to."
"Every animal knows way more than you do." -- by a Koyukon hunter, as quoted by R. Nelson.

Online Bigriver

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2016, 09:16:00 PM »
Jerry, with respect, hogwash.
The fake news is that you think your side is not responsible for the original posters perceived problem. You choose to lob political hand grenades instead. Pretty typical of liberal democrats in my opinion.

I would argue your side of the isle has locked up just as much land to hunting as anyone. Maybe more. But somehow you want to blame republicans only. I call bs.

Your side of the isle is home to the anti hunters, the animal rights acitivists, the anti weapon people, peta etc. How many democrats have bought land and closed it to any hunting?

Do you have any stats that show republicans have the market cornered on owning hunting land, leasing etc If so. I would really like to see it. That is the issue the original poster was asking about.

This is a non political issue, but you choose to point fingers, You have a few pointing back at you.

Im sure you are really rooting for Trumps success, wink wink
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Orion

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2016, 09:32:00 PM »
I don't have a side of the aisle, Brian.  In truth, though, dems aren't advocating for selling federal lands, republicans are.  If that happens, the rich will end up with them, on both sides of the aisle. I don't doubt that rich liberals, as you call them, have as much land locked up as rich republicans.  

If the federal land are sold or given to the states, or just made available for sale, those same rich liberals and republicans will buy them.  Doesn 't make any difference who buys them.  It means that  little folks like most of us will then no longer have an option when the private lands are closed to us, or priced beyond our means.  There will be few federal land to hunt.

BTW, I don't know what side of the aisle you think I'm on.  I try to be compassionate toward others,  but I'm certainly not an anti-hunter (been hunting all my life and plan to continue to do so), I'm not anti weapons, (I probably have more shotguns, rifles and hand guns than you do, and a concealed carry permit as well) and I certainly don't agree with anything PETA says or does.  

Sorry OP.  Afraid I contributed to side tracking this one. Just that from my perspective, what we're seeing happening on private land now could very well be facing us on public land in the future.

Offline achigan

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2016, 09:59:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Orion:
Sad, but true, and now the Republicans want to sell off our federal lands or give them to the states, who aren't financially equipped to manage them, and will in turn sell them off to balance their budgets.

Yep, hunting will be sold out of existence for all but a few. We're a dying breed.
Hey Orion. I know it's popular to bash a group when we're p!$$ed, but please check this out.
"The lone congressman from Montana is being offered the chance to lead the Department of the Interior Tuesday by President-elect Donald J. Trump, according to multiple media reports.
A retired Navy commander, who commanded SEALs and other special operations forces in Iraq, Republican Rep. Ryan Zinke met with the president-elect Monday.

On Monday’s conference call with reporters, Jason Miller, a spokesman for the Presidential Transition Team, said Zinke was a strong candidate for joining the Trump cabinet.

“Congressman Ryan Zinke from Montana. Congressman Zinke was an early Trump supporter,” Miller said.

“His background includes time in the Montana senate and 22 years as a Navy SEAL. Congressman Zinke is a strong advocate for American energy independence and he supports an all-encompassing energy policy that includes renewables, fossil fuels, and alternative energy,” he said.

Miller added, “Zinke believes we need to find a way to cut through bureaucracy to ensure our nation’s parks, forests, and other public areas are properly maintained and used effectively.”

The man Zinke replaced in the House, Sen. Steven D. Daines (R.-Mont.), Tweeted out his support for the Zinke pick:

 Follow
 Steve Daines ✔ @SteveDaines
.@RepRyanZinke protected us abroad and in combat and I know he will do the same for our treasured public lands as Secretary of the Interior.
6:27 PM - 13 Dec 2016
  49 49 Retweets   119 119 likes
Theresa Pierno, the president and CEO of National Parks Conservation Association said:

For the last 100 years, Americans have visited and explored our national parks, stunning landscapes and rich pieces of our history set aside for future generations. It is up to all of us to protect our national parks, including the President-elect and his new Interior Secretary. Mr. Zinke has expressed support for the Land and Water Conservation Fund, opposes the sale of public lands and has expressed concern over proposed mine development adjacent to Yellowstone. In contrast, Mr. Zinke has advocated for state control of energy development on federal lands, a move that threatens our national parks. Mr. Zinke has also repeatedly voted to block efforts to designate new national parks that would diversify the National Park System.

The League of Conservation Voters, a left-wing lobbying group, gave Zinke a three percent rating on its 2015 scorecard.

Environmentalists might not be pleased with Zinke, but neither has he always voted with conservatives, or even Republicans, since joining the House of Representatives with the class of 2015.

In July, Zinke voted with Democrats to unsuccessfully block a program to transfer federal land to the states.

According to a report in the Bozeman Daily Chronicle:

Zinke’s crossover vote comes as the Montana Democratic Party and his opponent in the November election, Denise Juneau, try to pin the congressman to his party’s support for transferring control of federal lands to the states, which, opponents say, is a step toward privatizing public lands.

The day after the vote, Zinke announced that he had resigned his post as a nominating delegate at the Republican National Convention over the GOP’s pro-transfer platform.

“I’ve made it very clear time that I do not support the sale or transfer of federal lands,” Zinke said in an email via his press secretary Monday. “That’s why I broke with a majority of my colleagues…. Our public lands are public for a reason. I do not support any roundabout ways to get rid of the very federal lands that form our Montana way of life.”

Zinke resigned as a delegate to the Republican National Convention, but he and his Spanish-speaking wife were strong supporters and surrogates for the new president.

When the retired Navy SEAL commander endorsed Trump at a May rally in Billings, Montana, the congressman said everyone has a duty to work to turn the country around by supporting the New York City developer. “We rise and fall on the same tide,” he said, adding:

It is time for us all to do our duty and it is time, Montana, to make America great again.

People ask me if Donald Trump will make a great commander-in-chief–well, I’ll tell you what–we need a commander-in-chief, who will put the interests of the United States ahead of the interests of raising money for the Clinton Foundation and we need a commander-in-chief, that will put our troops first and not abandon them in battle as Hillary Clinton did in Benghazi.

We need a commander-in-chief who will kill and capture our enemies, rather than catch and release them at Guantanamo Bay.

The former All-American lineman for the Oregon Ducks, who graduated with a degree in geology, said that, unlike President Barack Obama, Americans need a commander-in-chief who does not fund the nuclear weapons programs of Iran and treats veterans with respect. “We need a commander-in-chief who will put our veterans at the front of the line, rather than having them die in line waiting for health care.”

Zinke wrote about his experiences as a Navy SEAL in a book released in the last week of November, American Commander: Serving a Country Worth Fighting For and Training the Brave Soldiers Who Lead the Way.
...because bow hunting always involves the same essentials. One hunter. One arrow. One animal. -Don Thomas

Offline KSdan

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2016, 10:02:00 PM »
Guys.  Not to side track the OP- and NOT making this political- but everyone should be aware of some dramatic legislation in the pipeline that has the potential of doing the very thing Jerry (Orion) is warning about.  There is significant movement to give Fed lands back to the states.  It sounds very conservative and small gov't (which is the position many of us in a hunting world probably are) - however, some of this has already occurred and states either sold it to private interests for debt, or the state stopped hunting on it.  This is NOT a weird conspiracy thing.  It is a reality that is actually being considered. It may actually occur in the next few-20 years. Google guys trying to educate us about this; like Randy Newberg, bet even Clay Hayes is informed about this, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, etc. The reality of many Federal lands that we have all assumed a freedom to hunt on may be closed in the near future. No joke.

EDIT:  Note the post above. There has been a real effort to transfer these lands.  Sounds like Zinke broke ranks to keep these lands public for us.  

Dan in KS
If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat? ~anon

Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

Offline r.spencer

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2016, 10:15:00 PM »
This is exactly why I bought my little 120 acre piece 20 something years ago. 2  of the neighbors said I am free to hunt 1  is posted for him but we have an Greene to that if we shoot a deer and it goes on the others property they are free to go get it. Just call first in case one of us are hunting close. That way we don't disturb the other. Plus I still have several other locations I can hunt. All total I have  over a thousand acres to hunt.  Proud to say I am a country boy and some things still done on a handshake and your "word"
   My neighbor to the south bales about 20 acres of hay on me. I let him have it for free. In turn he limes and fertilizes my food plots. Win win
If you are going to be a bear , be a grizzly

Online Bigriver

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2016, 10:25:00 PM »
KsDan, Jerry different debate, different thread in respect for the original poster.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline CRM_95

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2016, 10:29:00 PM »
It's probably as bad here in Texas, or worse than most other places. Very little public land and leases are getting ridiculous. A cheap lease here is $1,000 per year. And you make people mad if you kill a legal deer and it doesn't measure up to their expectations. The lease I'm on is pretty strictly managed and I follow the rules of course even though I don't always agree. I love the place and have hunted there literally all my life, so I'll stick with it. But I have another little piece of private property I hunt for free, and I'm the only one allowed to hunt it. I enjoy my time there more because I know I can shoot any legal deer and not make everybody upset!! I tuck back every extra dollar I can so hopefully one day I can buy my own little piece of property.

Offline achigan

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2016, 10:30:00 PM »
I made friends with farmers 30 years ago, just to be a friend. When hunting came along for me, I was welcomed, and have taken venison and firewood off his land for three decades. I helped drive him to and from his tractor or combine, always picked up after myself and slob hunters. After he passed, his daughters continued the kindness, and I in turn take a stick of sausage to their home each Christmas.
   An eastern outfit, Base Camp, has been advertising a lot around here, and bringing the Lease mentality to Indiana. Money talks, and LOUD. I lost the privilege of fishing one of the best waters in west-central Indiana, but the land owners had more money to make ends meet. The only constant is change...
...because bow hunting always involves the same essentials. One hunter. One arrow. One animal. -Don Thomas

Offline KSdan

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Re: Sad times for hunting
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2016, 10:38:00 PM »
Bigriver- I am probably not in the "know" about all discussions.  Just reading through and noticed Orion's statement about land transfer. MANY on TG- may not be aware that this is actually happening.  And for many of us who are more conservative- it seems awkward as it actually has been promoted mostly by modern conservatives who want the rights to reside in the states.  I too am one who wants rights left to the states- at the same time the Fed land system was a tremendous development in our history from which we as hunters really did benefit.  And as stated- it is not a joke that we may lose access to these Fed lands.  Check into it.  This legislation is real and happening as we speak.  I am encouraged to hear about Zinke.      

Dan in KS
If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat? ~anon

Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

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