Sad times for hunting

[Bowwild]

One of the best (only?) things you can do is write your Congressman and your Senator about public lands staying in federal hands.  Having said that, if I was sure the state would not sell the lands, I'd be more for state ownership than federal (sorry).  I spent nearly 30 years in state agency wildlife management (IN, KS, MO, and KY).  Public lands were PRECIOUS and rare in three of those states (not so  much MO) and we would do anything to obtain more and keep it for hunters.

I am concerned about this, especially for the West where I like to visit my (and your) lands from time to time for a 7-10 days.

Back to the thread:
I've hunted private land most of my life until just about 6 years ago when a local fellow was leasing up land to outfit hunts. My landowner wouldn't have kicked me and my son off but I could tell he wanted a bit of "help". So I offered to pay annual property taxes ($1,500 year - 135 acres). I wrote a lease (web search) that at least addressed liability and my accepting of same.  I found a way to buy the land this past summer.

I've always found it pretty easy to get private permission EXCEPT in Kansas.  In IN, MO, and KY it was to my advantage that I was a biologist. It was not in Kansas.  One summer I used plat maps and several days of driving an hour out from Newton to knock on doors.  Met a bunch of very nice landowners.  Some even seemed tickled (??) that I was knocking on doors) I was turned down by every single landowner when I asked permission to bow hunt deer. Most already had their land leased, some only for birds but still would allow no deer hunting because their lessee wanted exclusivity.

I remember one ranch had a pile of shed antlers laying right out in the open next to the house.  Teasing?

I've been kicked off of two private tracts, one in Indiana and one in Kentucky. Both times I objected to another's hunter violation of game laws. In one case the hunter was cited (Indiana around Potato Creek SP) and in KY I just had to "remind" another hunter of the proper harvest reporting requirements.  Neither landowner appreciated my input.  But, I could not look the other way.

[Kevin Dill]

Keeping to the original focus of this thread...

I suppose easy access to neighboring lands was once a given. So many factors...so many years...have combined to change rural perspectives. A book wouldn't cover every thing that has changed the issue of easy access to private land for hunting. For some landowners it's a privacy issue. Could be about legal issues. Financial opportunity is a big one. More hunters seem to want exclusive rights to a property...wasn't that way 40 years ago. I also think part of it is the changing demographic of rural landowners. The easygoing guy on the 1960 Allis Chalmers tractor is mostly dead and replaced by younger generations with different attitudes and perspectives. The guard has changed. Many rural landowners are not farmers...just people who want out of town. The net effect is not a land or access-sharing ideology. It's more of a 'my land is my home' perspective, and the truth is most people don't have an open-door policy to their home...or their land.

[longbowman]

There's really nothing to debate here.  Just a muse on my part.  Europe went through this hundreds of years ago and now only those with money can hunt.  I hate that it may be this way in my own state but it's getting closer every year.  As a pastor I can't help but think of the neighbor-loving-neighbor aspect of the whole thing and yes...those are rose colored glasses I have on and will keep on as long as I can.  Good hunting all!

[McDave]

I expect that this, as is the case with a lot of similar problems in the world, has a lot to do with population increase. The population of the US has increased by about 100 million in my lifetime. You can't increase the population of a country by 50% in one lifetime without major impacts.  I expect that this problem will solve itself one day, probably not in a way to our liking.

[Tim Bertram]

I am not sure if I should start by saying fortunately or unfortunately regardless I agree with almost everyone's post in this thread. I however can simplify this subject matter down to one word that has put hunting and our traditional values in this death spiral. MONEY !! The outdoor networks and social media have amplified the problems. Portraying hunters consistently and quickly harvesting 150" plus whitetails. Selling products and the next magic gadget. I actually pay for these channels on a monthly basis and I do not mean to paint with a wide brush as there are several shows televised that I like. They "keep it real" for example Fresh Tracks with Randy Newberg. He hunts public ground, teaches conservation, dedication and work ethic. There are a few shows like this that I enjoy but the overall message has digressed into farming deer and harvesting the biggest buck in the area. The hunting public have been inundated by this message. I fell into this trap. I have been bowhunting for 40 years. I started of trad, switched to compound and found myself on a quest for Booners or Bust. What I found was dissatisfaction, harvesting many deer and feeling disappointed because they were not as big as I wanted or not as big as somebody elses. 15 years ago I almost quit bowhunting then I remembered how much fun I used to have hunting trad. I dusted off the old equipment and have never looked back. I am like most of you in that I grew up in Southern Illinois and now live in Indiana I used to have countless acres of private property in both states to hunt but unfortunately most have been leased up. I still bow hunt both Illinois and Indiana but I have very little private property to hunt on but I am still enjoying myself out there with my trad equipment. I may meet my maker with out ever harvesting a Booner but I have made a lot of friends through the years and live for the friendships I have made with my trad friends. I am hunting a little private ground and a lot of public ground still managing to harvest a doe and a decent buck in most years and I am having a ball not putting a lot of pressure on myself and having a blast pursuing what has become a rich man's game. I still do things the old fashion way, I knock on doors, ask permission, offer to work in fact Saturday I am delivering a few Christmas hams and thanking the farmers for allowing me the privilege to sit a few days in their respective wood lots. There is still a lot of farmers out there that respect people who take the time to talk to them and ask permission and become friends. People just need to shut the tv off, put the electronics down, slow down and breathe and go shake some hands. Even if you get told no you have met a new person and stayed true to our old fashion roots of looking a man in the eye and having a sincere conversation with him. We can't give up. There was a thread I saw earlier about a member teaching his neighbor boy how to shoot. If we do not reach back and not only get the next generation shooting but teach them the very ethics of respecting people, property and communication skills then our lifestyle and the very fabric we so dearly love will be gone as we pass on.

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by McDave:
I expect that this, as is the case with a lot of similar problems in the world, has a lot to do with population increase. The population of the US has increased by about 100 million in my lifetime. You can't increase the population of a country by 50% in one lifetime without major impacts.  I expect that this problem will solve itself one day, probably not in a way to our liking.

Yep.  We humans lived in perfect balance with nature for 250k years.  There were maybe 500k humans on the entire earth for most of that time.  Suddenly, in the last couple thousand, we've exploded to 7 billion (a 14,000-fold increase) and we're busy blaming lobbyists and trusting that politicians can fix it.  Nature always prevails.  And the last thing we need is a politician trying to fix it.

[mgf]

Well, it's been about 20 years since I had the chance to deer hunt private land...I have had a few folks let me squirrel hunt but once deer season opens, I'm locked out.

All the land owners (with huntable land) that I know or have contacted around here either hunt deer themselves, have family who hunts or they lease.

The local state places that I've hunted just aren't worth bothering with. I could elaborate but I'll save that.

I actually killed a buck this year but that was in my 4 acre back yard. I actually have about 2 acres that I let grow up. I have a tripod out there. I sit and something either shows up or it doesn't. Usually it doesn't.

I used to get a lot of deer traffic, which is why I took up deer hunting again after a long lay-off (because I didn't have anyplace to hunt) but then the cutting started. All the cover around me has been cut down so I'm like a little island out in the middle of nowhere. The deer traffic is a tiny fraction of what it used to be.

I remember when my father quit hunting more than thirty years ago with the complaint that there wasn't anyplace left to hunt.

What he meant, of course, was no place close to home.

[mgf]

So ...hunting land. I love to hunt the Indiana National Forest, although, finding deer there can be hit and miss. Unfortunately, it's pretty far away and I just can't seem to be able to spend enough time there to hunt effectively.

[mgf]

This year a guy I work with told me I could hunt his farm. WOW!

By by the time we talked about it, he was farming every night (he leases his land but works for another farmer part time during the season).

Anyway, he didn't have time to show me around.

Once he finally had time to take me home with him after work...I was sick one weekend, had to be out of town another weekend...then they were picking beans so I was told I couldn't hunt and then gun season opened. During the first couple of weeks of gun season his nephew has the place.

I did manage one walk out there. I say walk because it was mostly a scouting trip. The property is basically a thin strip of trees (very thin in most places) along a creek bordering the cop fields, which were beans this year.

At the far end is a little wooded corner, of which, about two acres is his. I counted 4 tree stands in there.

Deer hunting land? I haven't really had any since the 80's when I first took up archery and deer hunting because I started seeing deer on the little farm I used to rabbit and dove hunt.

I can't even imagine the sort of hunting that I read about on the forums because I've never actually seen such a thing.

If hunting dies it will be because the average person, who might otherwise be interested, just doesn't have anyplace worth hunting.

[WhitetailHtr]

I do not think that one can dispute that the advent of the compound bow, more than any other factor, contributed to
the changes in hunting and land access that everyone posts and laments about.

This started in the late 70s and early 80s as tens of thousands of new hunters, again as a result of the advent of the compound bow, put demands on property use.  

Back in the days of "traditional" archery, it was easy to get access to land to hunt.

Crossbows, inline muzzleloaders, etc. all contribute to the influx of hunters and an increase on demand for land, but once again, the compound bow is clearly the technology that tipped the balance to what we see it is today.  And the compound bow turned deer hunting into big business.

[mgf]

For sure, the number of people wanting hunt has gone up in relation the the amount of land available...more demand for less land.

Equipment may have something to do with it but I saw the same thin growing hunting with my father and we were small game gun hunters. The demand for the available hunting land still increased.

Another thing to consider is the commercialism and all the hunting/fishing TV shows. At one time, hunting was something that country folks did for fun or just to get meat. Now it's more of a sport like golf...for city folks, wealthy folks or whatever.

Why should a neighbor let me hunt for free (or what I can afford) when the nice buck stomping around their property is worth THOUSANDS of dollars?

It really has become a "sport".

[Zwickey-Fever]

I have been paying close attention to this thread before adding my 2 cents into the hat.
 Staying away from the political side of this thread but add my perspective as a land owner. I moved here to southern Iowa two years ago from Pennsylvania. Buying a old farmhouse six miles back on a gravel road with 12 acres, then 118 more additional acres of adjoining property about a year after ago. I moved here because my love for bowhunting whitetails.
 This year I agreed to let a few people gun hunt it because they have had permission from the previous owner to hunt it the last few years. But I would be the only one bowhunting it. I only hunt with a recurve.
 Okay, I told them some concerns and rules, one, absolutely no shooting towards my house. Two absolutely no driving on the winter wheat or fields. Four wheelers only and on the edges. Three, No littering. Four, No driving deer. That was basically it. And I did not want a dime.
 Opening day of firearm season comes. About 11 o'clock my wife calls me to the kitchen window to see a F250 of one of the hunters laying on its frame stuck right there in the middle of the winter wheat. I had to get my tractor to pull him out. His excuse was that he forgot. I had to fix the enormous ruts he left because if not, it would have caused drainage problems come spring. Then number two, I see two does break cover along the creek bottom as i was splitting wood. Kicked up by a hunter driving deer. The posted hunter opened up and the only thing he hit was my chicken coupe that's a mere 25 yards from my house!! When I confronted him and the other guy, they both denied it! Sent them down the road and after finding several empty pop cans. Next day, a neighbors 17 year old boy stopped and asked if he could hunt my upper CRP. I said sure Wyatt, go ahead and be safe. A few hours later I hear 2 shots coming from my upper CRP. So I took my four wheeler up to where Wyatt was to only have one of the hunters that I ran off the day before accusing Wyatt of trespassing!! That he had exclusive hunting rights to this land. I told the guy that he needs to leave my property immediately or be locked up!! Wyatt took a respectable buck. And people wonder why land owners act the way we do? I am not accusing anyone here but just sharing my very own experience as a landowner.

[Zwickey-Fever]

Also, landowners can be held liable for anyone hurt on their land in a lot of states as well.

[TGbow]

Funny how some people fall hook line and sinker for what the liberal media spouts out.

[LC]

Zwickey-Fever  
Avatar Image I feel your pain! I'd hate to be a landowner! That's exactly what a normal hunter has to face to get permission. I totally feel your pain! Sad but reality of life now a days.  Wish I had a better answer! Just hope  that some how you meet up with hunters who feel and hunt the same way you expect them to act!

[Zwickey-Fever]

A neighboring farmer was sued because a individual got hurt climbing a stand and now he is forced to have the people who hunt his land sign a waiver. When did lawyers become a big factor in the way we hunt??
 Also, the same individuals who I ran off was supposed to come down and help me with some minor things, mend some fences and help cut firewood. Not a bad price for hunting a farm in southern Iowa. All agreed but not one showed until second week of November to hang trail cameras. Oh well, lesson learned.

[RodL]

I own 150acres, my 2 neighbors have 250 and 200acres each. We don't lease any of our land, we have had several offers but never felt the desire to lease. In the past we allowed non family members  to hunt our properties, however, after a few years of tolerating the total disrespect for our properties we no longer allow others to hunt our lands. I agree with the others about the liability issues but I also believe many people don't allow hunting on their properties because of the lack of respect some hunters have for the property they hunt on. I know not all hunters are disrespectful but it only takes a few bad apples to put a bad taste in your mouth about allowing others to hunt on your property.

Rodney

[Pointer]

Good points on this thread on what is a tough subject. I had access to private land many years ago and then lost it and hunted only public for almost 10 years. Now I have access to some private land again. The leasing thing is complicated for sure. Lots of reasons for a landowner to lease his land...income is probably the first. Unfortunately for the landowners, people who pay money to hunt will sometimes take liberties with the land because they feel they can as a paying customer. This leads to a landowner no longer allowing anyone to hunt the land which is bad for all of the sport.

[mgf]

I've seen hunters and fishermen abuse property but in recent years I see it more and more on public land like the National Forest.

Just this season my wife and I stopped to check out one of the spots we camp in sometimes. Somebody had cut down a ton of young beech trees to fashion a lean-to. We see a lot more tree cutting. This is just one recent example.

We sometimes camp just off the road. There are no "official" camp sites but folks tend to use and re-use the places where there is a good spot to pull off.

The garbage we pick up is unbelievable.

I hate not having a place to hunt but, if I were a land owner, I'd be real hesitant to let anybody on my land.

[mgf]

30 years ago I knew of a farm that had an old flooded stone quarry...the best bass fishing that I've ever seen.

The owner let folks fish. He left an access road open and a fairly large area to park.

It wasn't long before somebody shot up a bunch of beer bottles and left all the busted glass and boxes all over the place. Somebody we 4-wheeling all through the standing crops.

Needless to say the owner fenced the place off and posted it. How can you blame him?