Article on bear spray

[eidsvolling]

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[Kevin Dill]

By the title one might assume the article is pro bear spray? I don't receive TBM so no option to peruse the article.

[BWallace10327]

I carried bear spray for a few years, but I prefer my .44.  When I lived in NW Wyoming, some fishing guides that worked in Yellowstone and Grand Teton carried air horns, and apparently they worked. The bears didn't seems to love noises that loud.  My pistol has a factory muzzle-break and is one of the loudest things I've ever heard.  The report from a warning shot might scare anything, if not there is a backup plan, although the last thing I want is to shoot and kill a bear for no good reason.

[ChuckC]

What we need is a single button that resides on the front of the chest.  Easy access.  Deploying that button immediately sets off two or three loud, obnoxious air horns, a pack of M-80s, shoots pepper spray in all directions, and inflates a backpack worn air mattress (to increase your size) with a very large eye on it.

oh, and immediately dispenses a roll of toilet paper.... cause you might need it ( so might the bear).

I have no experience at all in dealing with Grizzlies, but I would tend to go with a gun, for no reason other than it makes me feel like I can actually do something instead of scream.  In my mind, I would not even think of shooting one running at me, but if it touches me I point and shoot.  That may be wishful thinking, again, absolutely no experience
CHuckC

[Kevin Dill]

Chuck!....had to laugh!

On a slightly more realistic note: I've said 3 things can be combined to create the ultimate bear deterrent...light, noise and pain. Someone should create a handheld device (think flare gun) but it doesn't shoot flares. When the trigger is pulled there is a huge flash of light; a loud concussive blast; and a cloud of capsicum pepper right into the face of a close-range bear.

Come to think of it...might be handy near the front door, too.

[creekwood]

Kevin,  How much capsicum pepper could one load into a .454 Casull? I'm thinking that might satisfy your 3 things that would be in your handheld device.  It would be called "The archer's friend".

[eidsvolling]

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[Rick Richard]

Don't be down wind when deploying the spray.

I have witnessed Grizz going right through a cloud of spray and continue the charge until persuaded differently.

Not sure what the solution is for stopping an attack other than staying out of bear country.

[beendare]

Sounds like good advice.....I don't subscribe.

Personally, I think whatever deterrent you can deploy accurately the fastest is the correct answer.

Plus,I think a guy needs to consider all bear encounters are not created equal....and can be segregated in to 'Curious' and 'Aggressive' with each requiring a different strategy.

[eidsvolling]

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[Kevin Dill]

Without knowing a thing about the author I'll still respect his opinions. What's right for one guy isn't necessarily the best answer for everyone. The author's quote: "Fortunately, there is mounting evidence that bear spray alone may be the solution for those who do not want to carry a firearm." is beyond obvious. There isn't much else available for typical bear defense beyond guns or spray.

This is always a great winter topic and sure to produce discussion. I carry spray and a handgun in Alaska. I have yet to hear of anyone spraying a bear effectively while it was attacking them through their tent fabric. I haven't ever seen a bear run away from the noise of spray, but a big handgun blast...yes. No defense with spray until a bear is basically on you, while a firearm can both haze, painfully deter or kill a bear at greater distance. Spray is basically a one-encounter deal. One can...one bear...you're done. Not a big deal unless you have 10 more days to hunt and no additional spray. Firearms offer reload capability and have greater versatility vs spray.

Spray is undoubtedly the only choice for someone with little or no firearms experience. I recall walking the trail to Russian River Falls over a year ago and noticing brownie tracks in the sand. Tourists were bopping along with cameras swinging and a big bottle of spray on their hip belts. I couldn't help but wonder how many of them could have that spray out and deployed in under 4 seconds...the time it takes a bear to cover 50 yards at a run.

[wingnut]

Kevin,

I could not agree more with you.  I listen to those that have been there and survived to talk about it.

To me a seven second spray is not going to do the trick as well as 6 rounds from my .480.

Also the likelihood of a bear being in camp at night is very high. In that case you may be fighting for your life inside a tent or what's left of it.

We have three .480s in our camp that will at least make a lot of noise.

Mike

[Walt Francis]

My personal observations/experience, based on hunting in the highest concentration of grizzly’s in the lower 48 and five trips to Alaska (three moose hunts, one brown bear hunt, and working a summer on Kodiak Island):
•   The grizzly’s and brown bears in Alaska are considerably more afraid humans than the grizzly’s where I hunt in Montana.  They are hunted in Alaska, compared to being able to run rampant without any consequences here in Montana.  A gun shot, is a dinner bell to the local grizzly’s.
•   I have been charged on two occasions by grizzly’s, both stopped when the first bullet hit the ground in front of the charging bear.  The first bear stopped at 6-8 yards, the second at 10-12 yards.  One was a sow with cubs behind her.  I believe the other was a sow but didn’t see any cubs.  
•   Like Kevin, I carry both pepper spray and a .44 when hunting in Montana.  When hunting Alaska, I only carry the .44.  
•   I have never used the pepper spray, that said I have little faith in it.  As previously mentioned, it is a one-shot opportunity with no ability to reload.  Spending most a wilderness adventure or hunt in a tree, to avoid a grizzly that keeps returning to your camp is not my idea of a fun time (yes this has happened to others).  
•   There are numerous documented cases in this region where the grizzly ran through the pepper spray cloud and attacked/mauled the bowhunter/hiker (twice this past year).
•   Will a .44 stop a charging grizzly?  Yes, a friend killed a charging sow grizzly at two yards with his .44 and then had to use it to keep both of her 1 ½ year old grizzly cubs (150-200#) from attacking him as they followed him during the mile hike back to camp.  They never got farther than 75 yards away until he got into camp.  
•   It is not likely one will kill the grizzly before it reaches him/her. My hope is to deter/stop the bear from attacking with the loud noise of the gun with the first shot.  It has worked twice.  If it does not stop, I fully expect to be mauled, my hope is to kill it before it kills me.  

Being attacked by a grizzly is the risk one  must accept when hunting in grizzly country.  I know many hunters who will not hunt some of the areas I hunt.

[John/Alaska]

Bears & Protection from the critters – Where I live I am constantly dealing with bears. Both grizzly & blacks bears. Every year I have some kind of encounter with at least one bear. I even had one black bear try to get in my house. I ended up playing paddy cake with him on my picture window but that is another story. What I guess I’m saying is I rather have a gun in my hands then a can of bear spray. Most of the bears I see are heading away from me but one such bear that I happen to have pictures of did not. Him and I had a staring contest for about 7 minutes. At first he didn’t want to get off the trail and wouldn’t respond to the sounds of my 6 whlr he just kept marching toward me. Finally I just floored the machine and at 22 yards he looked up with the darnest expression on his face. And he got off the trail but started to circle me. Somewhere in that time frame I got off my 6 whlr a stood behind it and with my shot gun ready and my 44 mag revolver out laying on the seat. But I was not going to let this pass without a picture. So when He turned sideways I picked up the camera and when He turned towards me I picked up the SG. Finally he trotted off but at about 60 yards he just had to looked again. It was a picture that I missed but he stood up on his hind legs classic grizzly style and just stared at me. He really hadn't seen a human before is my guess.

[cch]

I just moved to Montana this year. I heard the story of the guy getting mauled after spraying the bear right in the mouth. I don't think I would feel very safe with only pepper spray. I talked to a good fri no of mine that is very into firearms ans asked what kind of gun I should get. I was thinking 44 or bigger. He said it si very unlikely that you will kill a bear with a pistol with one shot before it gets to you and that with a large handgun getting an accurate second or third shot off is difficult with the recoil. He suggested a Glock 29 sf in 10 mm. It is small and light and can be carried in a retention holster so you don't lose it like my friend did this year with his 44 revolver. The 10mm packs a punch close to a 41 mag but has more shots and is easier to control for follow up shots. It's also a nice daily carry gun. Hope I never have to find out if it is adequate but feel I can put several bullets in it if push comes to shove and hope it hurts it enough to not want to beat me up to bad.

[YosemiteSam]

I spent a little time as a teenager up in the Idaho panhandle with my uncle & his family.  He would carry a .44 with us on backpacking trips.  He carried the .44 and fancied himself pretty competent with it (got expert qualification from the army).  He was never all that confident that he could do more than fire a warning shot, piss it off at a distance and then maybe put it down on the charge in with the 5 other rounds.  That was his best case scenario but he was watching over 3 kids & a goofy teenager (me).  He may have just been hoping to grab the bear's attention away from us should it come to that.  To my knowledge, he's never had to fire a round at a bear.

One of my wife's cousins works in AK for their fish & game.  They carry shotguns with slugs when doing salmon studies.  She's gotten close but still never had to shoot a bear (and she counted salmon carcasses during the spawning season -- high risk, I'd say).

I have been told many times that a pistol is what you use to fight your way to your rifle.  All pistol rounds suck (although a .44 may be an exception).  I'll take a .223 over a 10mm any day of the week and I'll just say a prayer if I have to rely on either one in grizzly country.

I'll carry bear spray if I must.  I'll carry a firearm if I can.  People have been living with grizzlies for more years than not -- they're animals, not monsters.  But if there's one thing hunting has taught me, it's that death is just part of life.  At some point, you just have to accept the risk.

[Pointer]

I no longer subscribe but I did for a lot of years.. TBM has published several pieces about bears and backup over the years. The recommendation was generally bear spray or a combination of spray and a pistol unless you were willing to carry a large bore rifle.

No grizz here in NY..lol.. but one of the state parks I hunt has been thick with blackies for years now. So many that a DEC officer went out of his way a couple years ago to wait for me to get back to my truck because I was hunting in an area know to house a territorial 400+ lb black bear that had run a couple hunters out of the woods just days before.

I started to carry bear spray after that just as a precaution. I have to say though that when I practiced with one in my yard it was largely affected by wind. It wasn't a particularly breezy day but I caught enough of it in the face to concern me if I had actually been using it on a bear.
I think I'd be with the guys who advocate for something that goes boom if I ever hunted real bear country.

[BWallace10327]

Originally posted by YosemiteSam:


 All pistol rounds suck (although a .44 may be an exception).  I'll take a .223 over a 10mm any day of the week and I'll just say a prayer if I have to rely on either one in grizzly country.

[Steve H.]

It looks like Kevin Dill just listed about ten situations where pepper spray will fail.

I've been stalked by a mature boar black bear while only armed with a bow, he left seconds before catching an arrow.

I have killed a 8-8.5' coastal brown bear at 10 yards and coming with a .375 H&H Magnum, turning the bear with the first shot is key which gives further opportunity to drop it if needed. The bolt rifle is horribly cumbersome.

I now carry a Glock G20 10mm with 15 @220 grain hardcast for generic areas and a short barreled 458 SOCOM in an AR15 for high incident areas plus trailing and backup with 525 grain hardcast. This carbine is very reasonable to carry vs a bolt rifle. Use it when we 'instigate' bear encounters.

Bear spray? NFW.

[Kevin Dill]

Steve H is like me...injury averse, lol. If you'd see the area he lives and hunts in you'd understand why.

Two years ago I solo-hunted eastern Alaska for caribou. I was dropped in by plane along with my gear. Two hours later I had a bbg (big blonde grizzly) walking right to me. I was fairly high on an exposed mountainside and unfortunately the wind was gusting from the bear to me. He had no idea I was there and couldn't smell me. In the face of that stiff wind and the bear coming straight in I would have had to have him at 10' or less before spray would hit him and I would have gotten a disabling dose myself. I put him in excess of 500 and maybe 600 pounds. I finally had no choice but to stand up and confront him in the wide open...and luckily for me he decided to run after a few uncomfortable minutes of stalking around me. There wasn't a tree within 5 miles.

That trip turned into a weather nightmare with the worst winds I've ever endured. The grizz visited my camp one morning in a storm...I was in the tipi. I had the hammer back and ready to blow a hard-cast slug through silnylon if the bear tried to get cute. He didn't. Spray would have been less than useless right then.

I'm not saying a firearm is unequivocally better for everyone in bear defensive situations. But if you were going deep and far into the heart of big bear country for say 2 weeks...alone and no fast way out...and you had to choose between a can of compressed spray and a reliable firearm with 20 rounds of heavy ammo...which would you take?