Actual arrow speed from Sage

[TMRtrad]

Hi Folks,

Just got a chrono and the readings it gives me much slower than numbers I see posted online for the Sage. Because no one ever exaggerates on the internet, it makes me wonder why my bow is so much slower...Seriously though, I believe it is slower and am just wondering why.

It is a Sammick Sage, 60 lbs limbs, 28 inch draw length, FF string, 513 grain arrows. Shoots about 164 FPS according to my chrono.

Oh, and I shot my compound through the chrono just to test its accuracy and the speed it gave me is exactly what it should be based on the calculations I can find online.

Does this seem a little slow or are others getting the same numbers out of the Sage?

[Msturm]

I have never crono'd mine but 164 aint' no slouch. Especially in the 130$ range  I occasionally break out my 55 lb sage, its great for hunting because I don't mind if it gets dinged. And it has put holes in everything I have pointed it at assuming I did my part. It shoots right there speed wise with my other bows of similar poundage. I don't own a chrono, so I cannot help you with exact numbers.

Msturm

[hybridbow hunter]

164 fps for 8.5 gpp at 28" Is VERY slow. You can check the real poundage maybe lower than 60# and your real drawlenght maybe less than 28". If you have a static release it may eat a few fps as well.
On a shooting machine the sage is usuallly in the 170 fps for 10 gpp at 28"

[huntmaster70]

I never get the speeds posted on the internet with any of my bows @ whatever GPP either. I check the weight on my bows-check my draw length-weigh my arrows then shoot thru my chrony many times to get average speed. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. My bows although "slower" than what they "should" be according to what I've read still put meat in the freezer.

[crazynate]

I have 1300 dollar custom bows that are 55pounds that shoot 160 so I wouldn't worry bout speed. I also have bear bows from the 60s that shot faster. It's all in design in my opinion

[Zwickey-Fever]

I use a chronograph to check certain things, such as making sure I am not short drawing, making sure i hit my anchor point consistently and my release because all will effect arrow speed. But for me, speed doesn't does not kill, accuracy and sharpness does.

[KeganM]

I chrono'd a friend's Sage with a FF Flemish string and it did 170 fps at 28" draw with a 10 gpp arrow, which seems to be the consensus among Sage shooters.

I also had a customer report speeds far below what I chrono'd my bows at myself. One fellow lost almost twenty feet per second and when I asked him to send a video he had a consistent collapse at full draw through the release. He was happy with his shooting, but he was never getting as much from his bows as they could offer.

I picked up performance when I started working on my form with lighter bows. My draw expanded and my release became much cleaner. Ironically it gave me better performance than with some of my heavier bows. Oh well!

[old_goat2]

Never mind

[NothingHappenedToday]

Is the arrow too weak (or stiff) and hitting the riser (or doing something else), robbing it of its speed? Can you give us some specifics -- arrow length, spine, point weight?

Also, some bows are just slower. I have two Hummingbird longbows, and the 54# shoots noticeably slower than my 53# with the exact same arrow.

[Shadowhnter]

5 different guys can shoot the same set up and get 5 different averages. Its all a "there abouts" issue. Your Sage is shooting plenty fast. Wasnt it Howard Hill who said anything beyond 56-57 pounds begins to decline in efficiency?

[Archie]

I don't ever want to get a chronograph.  I've heard that they can really ruin one's opinion of an otherwise very satisfying bow.

It would be like seeing yourself on video wearing spandex.  Probably very disappointing, and once you know the truth, you'll never forget it.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by Shadowhnter:
5 different guys can shoot the same set up and get 5 different averages. Its all a "there abouts" issue. Your Sage is shooting plenty fast. Wasnt it Howard Hill who said anything beyond 56-57 pounds begins to decline in efficiency?

I don't know about Howard Hill saying that. Most longbow designs do not reach maximum efficiency until 70# according to Byron.

Hill's main bow "Grandpa" was 85#.

As for the Sage arrow speed.

I would double check your brace height and the string material you are using.

The 8"+ brace heights most are recommending with the Sage really drains the hell out of them speed wise as does the string silencers and limb pads people are using on their Sage.

If you drop the brace height to 7" even, are using a fast flight string, and are shooting a bare string with no limb pad's or silencers it should have no trouble hitting 170fps drawn to 28".

Brace height and string silencers/limb pads/brush buttons/etc really effect your arrow speed much more than most people think.

I can feel and see a big difference between a 7" brace height and 8" brace height with any of the bow's that I've shot with the lower brace height being noticeable faster.

[old_goat2]

Originally posted by Archie:
I don't ever want to get a chronograph.  I've heard that they can really ruin one's opinion of an otherwise very satisfying bow.

It would be like seeing yourself on video wearing spandex.  Probably very disappointing, and once you know the truth, you'll never forget it.

I look GOOD in spandex! And all my bows are still fast even after I shoot through my chrono!

[TMRtrad]

Thanks for the insight guys. Here are some answers to your questions. My draw length should be close to 28. Could be 1/2 inch short but not more than that. I do have limb buttons and beaver fur string silencers on it. I shoot the same set up year round that I plan to hunt with. I know that my release needs some work to make it more consistent but it should not be reducing fps much, and I try to pay attention to form when shooting through the chrono. The numbers I posted were with a brace height of about 8, which is middle-of-the-road for a Sage. The arrows I like are 340s with 175 gr. points. I can shoot 400 arrows with the same points and speed only increases a few fps. The arrow is almost 32 inches with the field point on.
I might try to pull the limb buttons and string silencers off to see what difference it makes. I'll check my limbs again to make sure they are both 60#. I do have 55# and 50# limbs as well.
Speed is just number and my bow will kill deer. I get that. It already has killed a deer. But as expected, my tinkering with the chrono has already taught me some things. I'll get back to you with some more results.

[58WINTERS]

Sounds about right. I had a Bob Lee 60" 60# @ 28 2016 or 2018 don't remember mid to high 160's was all she would do.
58

[lefty4]

I think most folks shoot through a chronograph in one of two ways. Some shoot to see how fast their bows shoot THE WAY THEY SHOOT IT. Others shoot to see HOW FAST THEY CAN MAKE THE BOW SHOOT.

The results will be VERY different.

[KeganM]

Originally posted by TMRtrad:
 I know that my release needs some work to make it more consistent but it should not be reducing fps much

You might be surprised. Shooter input can have a huge impact. Just look at the wide spread of spine ranges that work for different people, even out of the same bow. I've tested with and without cat whiskers and the difference was like two feet per second. Chrono'd the same bow and arrow before and after a long 3D course and saw a ten feet per second drop. The bow was on the heavier side so by the end I was getting tired and losing focus. It doesn't take much.

[TMRtrad]

I took the limb buttons and silencers off and got about 170 fps with a brace height of 8 inches.
The string that came with the bow (B-50) is only a couple of fps slower, which surprised me a bit too. I guess it is what it is. I'll keep shooting it...

[LBR]

Check out the shooting tips at  www.safarituff.com  .  Might help a bit.

[ProAlpine]

Are you sure those 340 32" arrows with 175 up from are only 513 grains? Sounds more like 613 grains...

You might gain some speed if you went to a 400 spine shaft and shortened it to match your 27.5" draw length. It would seem suitable for deer.