Did archers of the past know about spine?

[Elusive One]

I was just curious about how arrows where handled in the past.  Are things like spine and paradox recent concerns or have they been around for thousands of years?

[mike g]

I don't think the Longbow men of England knew about spine....
Butt I read once that out of a bunch of arrows one had, If he needed to realy make a shot he would go to his Favorite arrow....

[Shawn Leonard]

I am not sure, but would guess yes. Otherwise how would some of been great shots. They shot what shot best and that meant the right spine arrow. Shawn

[poekoelan]

I would bet that alot of different archery cultures started with long arrows and shortened them until they got good flight.

[Bill Carlsen]

In the past, at least in early 20th century, target archers would number their arrows. As I recall, each arrow had its own shooting characteristics and by numbering the arrows each arrow would be aimed accordingly. I don't think a real spine tester came into existence until some time lapse photography showed what the paradox was all about. I have some old Ye Sylvan Archer reprints that seem to suggest that scenario.

[TexMex]

I would say they had some idea. Have you watched them National Geographic shows of some natives with arrow that look to be about 5ft long? Usually they are shooting monkeys.

[gwhunter]

I have heard that they would shoot a whole bunch of arrows.  Group them together based on where they grouped in the target.  I guess they broke their target out into quadrants or another means.  Seems logical since you would know where each group would hit.

[aromakr]

Oh they knew about spine, they just didn't put a name on it until about the late 1920's. Dr Nagler talks about spine in the book "Archery on the Technical side" which was written in the late 20's
Bob

[**DONOTDELETE**]

like everyone else said...YES & NO.. no for the name spin, but Yes as in they found what worked and knew how to reproduce the same arrow or close to it... I think I saw it written in Pope's Book " Hunting with the bow & arrow" when talking about Ishi making arrows.. I will look again and see if it written in there...

[SCATTERSHOT]

Howard Hill used to fletch up a bunch of shafts and shoot them into a sandbank. Then he would group the arrows together according to how they grouped in the bank.

Bill Carlsen 's explanation is correct, also. I have friends who still do this.

[Liquid Amber]

Duff gets credit for introducing the concept of spine to America and the term was first in print in 1912. The original English[and Duff] definition of spine was a measure of resilence, not stiffness. [YSA-May 1931-pg 12]

Dr. W. H. Dolman may have developed the first spine tester that mirrors the type used now, one utilizing the principle which is used by the Bureau of Standards in its machine for testing rigidity of steel bars. It was based upon 26" and 2 pound weight. [YSA-Jan 1931-pg 6]

Clement Parker produced a “commercial” spine tester in 1938, first I'm aware of. [ABR Feb 1938-pg 8]

The classic work "Debunking Spine" by Rheingans is from the May 1933 Archery Review.

The Classic "Spine and Arrow Design" by Rheingans/Nagler is in the June and Aug 1937 ABRs.

The Rheingans stuff was collected in "Archery the Technical Side[1947]"

[Ted Fry]

Cliff , glad your literary knowledge is out there, once again your history shines through.
Thanks for being out there.
Read any good books lately?

[Elusive One]

Wow...Nice response guys.

I didnt figure the term has been around very long and was thinking about trying to make arrows without a clue as to what I was doing.  I am not sure I would figure out the the arrow bent like that coming off the string just from shooting.  It makes perfect sense but without being told and not being able to see it I doubt I would of thought about it.  Unless i made long thing arrows like TexMex refered to and could actually see them bending after they left.  But know that I think about other things I have done for a long time whenever you do something often you can sense little changes.  Can you long time shooters feel a spine change?

[Liquid Amber]

Hey Ted,

Not since Carson's book on Hill.  

I have a new grandson [third] in Portland.  Will be there in June.  Might drive over and visit if you're around.

Don's copy of Hill's "Wild Adventure" is the last good deal on a book I've had...$30 for an inscribed and signed copy by Howard and Elizabeth Hill.  If you hadn't of published Don's stuff on Hill, I likely never would have figured his place in our history.

[Bjorn]

Just because we have not found cave painting's describing Archer's Paradox doesn't mean the cave man did not know that a strong bow needs a stiff arrow. Isaac Newton didn't 'invent' gravity-he defined it. Gravity was no stranger to the cave man. Expert archers have been around for a very long time.......entire countries relied upon archery for their defenses and produced bows by the tens of thousands and arrows by millions-literally. I have been unable to find medieval accounts of an arrow maker sorting his shafts into 'stiff' or 'soft'. But just like a stonemason knew how to build an arc over a doorway I don't think that a bowyer or arrow builder knew any less.

[ozarkcherrybow1]

Gary, I don't think there is much that we know now, that the archers from of the ancient past did'nt know! We are just trying to keep the tradition alive. They just had different terminology. imho....Terry

[Van/TX]

Good stuff Cliff        ...Van

[Ted Fry]

Cliff , Hopefully it will be the end of June as I will be out guiding till mid June,love to have you see that bow Hill made for Carson.
Well put Bjorn , remember guys these are people that figured out how to increase tension and compresion capabilities with sinew.
Nothing we are doing now hasnt been done before.

[nevada cody]

yes they sure did know about spine the marry rose bows and arrows prove this ,most off the arrows found on the ship were spined above 110 pounds and would not spine right unless shoot
from a realy heavy bow 110#+ i cant remeber exact but i think they found over 3000 arrows in good condition only points and horn nocks missing every one knows its almost impossible to hit something with arrows not spined corect or close. and the english archers practised
since very low age and they used the bow as a weapon off war for many hundreds off years im 100% sure they did know about spine they mighth off hade a different name for the word or no name at al but they did know
cheers cody

[Elusive One]

Nevada Cody  me and my wife are trying to learn swedish online  

I cant imagine pulling a 110#+ bow.