Tradtional bow only season.

[BWallace10327]

Well said Sam.

[Bowwild]

I've seen too many fights among hunter groups.  

One of the worst signals you can send to your regulation-setting FW Commissions and Boards is one of elitism. While wanting a separate season may be motivated by resource allocation, it will often be seen as "we are better and more deserving than them".  Many will think it really means wanting to kick others out of the season. In my mind, we are no different than the antis if we head down that road.

I haven't been to a KY FW Commission meeting since I retired in 2007 (except to provide NASP® updates around the country).  If a proposal came up in may home state of KY for something like this I would first try to reason otherwise with those who pursued it. If I failed in that, I'd attend the regulation meetings and oppose it.

To do otherwise would mean (in my mind)  I'd be agreeing with those who say my son and my grandson's should stay home while I go afield with my recurve.  My recurve would become a wedge in hunter relations. My children certainly wouldn't be inspired to emulate me or my methods.

The only impact any other hunter, not matter their methods, has on me is the requirement to wear orange when rifle or muzzle-loader seasons overlap archery.  Sometimes I don it and go and other times I take a weekend off.

Over three decades working in wildlife agencies I am certain we have the "compounders" to thank for the long seasons (in the east) we enjoy today.  If bowhunter harvest (ok, kill) was too low, firearms seasons would be longer.  A county that can support 25 deer/mile cannot be allowed to reach or remain at twice that level or societal carrying capacity will get the politicians with their "next election vision" involved, and then we all go backward 100 years.

Having written all that, I will offer that western habitat and population levels are a different dynamic than in the east. I've had some wildlife directors say to me, "Why do would we want to create more bowhunters (or any hunters for that matter) when we have fewer permits than hunters already?"

[swampcrawler]

Intend to agree with the majority here. Nothing to be gained.

I don't think anyone wants:
1 day of selfbow season
1 day of self bows backed by performance enhancing sinew.
1 day of trad longbow
1 day of performance enhancing recurve
1 day of single cam season
1 day of dual cam season
1 day of recurve crossbow season
1 day of compound crossbow
1 day of vertical crossbow
1 day of airbow
1 day of flintlock
1 day of percussion
1 day of inline muzzle loader
Etc etc etc.

We all chose to hunt with different weapons for different reasons.  Hunt with your weapon in your style, let others do the same and be happy.

I think the only approach to achieve such a thing would be to lobby for areas which allow no hunting, to allow us crazy stick and string guys in. After all, there are only like 12 of us in the country and combined we kill 1.23 animals per year, so how much harm could we possibly do?    

[TSP]

How about having a traditional arrow only season instead?  That way folks can shoot any bow and wood arrow they want.  

[swampcrawler]

Originally posted by TSP:
How about having a traditional arrow only season instead?  That way folks can shoot any bow and wood arrow they want.      

Hey I could get behind that. I'd love to see what the industry could come up as far as a wood shaft to handle compound speed.    

[KSdan]

Realize again, the OR discussion looks as if it is NOT about trad vs compound vs gun etc.   The discussion is about harvest #, success rates and length of bow season. The original reasons for long bow seasons and even special muzzleloader seasons had to do with more "primitive" weapons that had lower success rates.  As things have advanced with technology the original margins of those seasons are being reviewed.

This is not about trad vs other weapons but whether they should reduce the length of the OR bow season due to success rates.  With THAT the honest conservation discussion reintroduces the discussion about success rates for trad bows (original intentions) vs tech bows.

So- I guess to keep some from feeling "picked on," OR should just shorten their season for everyone.  On the other hand they could shorten the season for certain weapons while leaving a longer bow season for trad equipment. . .  of course they may have to offer "safe zones" with playdough, color books, and therapy dogs for those who have been traumatized by the decision.    

[LB_hntr]

Dan your assessment of the topic is spot on! It's not a discussion on what weapon deserves what, or what weapon should or shouldn't be used. It is about archery season harvests getting very high due to technology in equipment and what states will do to keep the harvest numbers during archery season from getting to high. Most likely that will be to shorten the season. The big question is if that season gets shortened should it be shortened for the weapon s responsible for the easier killing or for all weapons during the season.
My thought is tradbows have been "the archery season" since the beginning and our equipment is unchanged since the beginning. But now we have huge advances in compounds and also xbows. Maybe if harvest numbers for archery get to high we should only limit the season for those weapons that are killing the huge majority of the animals. Trad bowhunters have been her doing their low impact hunting since the beginning. Why should we give up a portion of our season because modern bowhunters want it easier and over harvest areas. After all we are still doing exactly the same thing we always have. Enjoying the woods, enjoying long seasons, and taking a few (hardly even noticeable numbers) animals. Over harvest requiring shorter seasons has never been something we caused or took part of. Why should we have to go down With the ship?

[tim roberts]

Well said LB!  To add just a little bit to what you said, not only do the advancements in equipment make it easier to harvest, it also allows more people to enter or opportunity. While some may see this as a good thing, we seem to have forgotten that bowhunting is not for everyone, archery maybe, but definitely not bowhunting.
Thanks,

[LittleBen]

Here in NY, the rules are convoluted enough.

For example, in our southern zone, late bow season overlaps with muzzleloader, so you can hunt either weapon for that 10 days. But if your buddy hunts with a  muzzleloader and you hunt with a bow, same day, same property, its legal as long as you never meet up and help each other while one has a bow and one a smokepole ... that oddly enough is illegal. Why? No one knows. Probably because they wrote the law poorly and some lawyer decided that's what it meant.

Anyway, my point is that I can already bowhunt from the start of the deer season on 10/1 to the last day usually around December 15, and Dec. 31st in some areas.

I don't worry about what everyone else is doing. I rarely see another bowhunter even on public land, and when I do they're usually doing something stupid. I'd rather spend my time finding more private land to hunt than arguing with politicians about another law for the rule books.

Cheers

[RAGHORN 3]

Well said all... I agree that segregation = less opportunity.

I would like to see individuals who choose to use traditional weapons be rewarded in some way, maybe let them start a week earlier or hunt a week later? Or maybe a bonus tag if successful filling original tag? Something should be done to try and limit use of technology in our sport.

[J-dog]

Originally posted by Bisch:
I would just be happy if they could keep all the non archery stuff from squeezing into the current archery season. Currently in Texas we have MLD (special permits) folks that can rifle hunt in "Archery Only" season, Youth rifle hunts that are held during the "Archery Only" season, and x-bows allowed all the time during the "Archery Only" season. If much more creeps in, "Archery Only" won't mean much around here!!!

Bisch

I hear ya - same in NC, jr rifle day middle bow season and I see a lot of really old jrs out there this yr! I don't mind the crossbows and wheelies but even "jrs" should have to stick with a bow in bow season.

[northern lights]

Fought the fight against the crossgun with the UBP, but  have to agree with the other  Pa. guys on here that I don't see many other  hunters in bow season, could be that I'm willing to hoof a ways on public ground(where 4wheelers aren't supposed to be) and the other being I hunt way more mornings than evenings since I retired, not that I won't pull an all dayer  during the chase phase of the rut.

[LB_hntr]

I think 90℅ of you guys miss the whole point of this topic...lol
Read the post by myself or by ksdan. Actually dan even posted it twice.

[YosemiteSam]

Haven't heard of anything like this in CA.  We're all pretty grateful to still be allowed to hunt at all for what little game there is to find in our short seasons.

Would I support such a measure?  Sure.  But I'm pretty cynical about what good my support or that of traditional bowhunters could have in this political machine.  By support, I only mean that I'd feel happy about it.  But mostly for selfish reasons.

If I were to impose some sort of weapons restrictions, I feel that restricting firearms of all types would be a good help since the noise intrusion it brings puts wildlife on edge.  Traditional bows, compounds, crossbows, air rifles, etc. are all quiet weapons with effective ranges at less than 100 yards.  That seems plenty good enough for me & more in-line with our evolutionary capabilities and that of our prey's.  I own, shoot and have hunted with firearms -- 2A supporter.  But nothing puts wildlife on edge & under pressure like the sound of gunfire.  I don't need to shoot something to enjoy the hunt but I certainly need to see something.  The advent of rifle season definitely makes that all the more difficult.

But, like I said, I'm pretty cynical about the political process & have no delusions about being able to influence it one way or another.  So I have the luxury of not having to think too hard about it all.

[tomsm44]

Simple solution to the harvest # issue that is apparently the driving force in OR.  Reduce # of tags issued to each hunter.  

Now, to be fair, I don't know how many tags OR hunters get or what animal species is even being discussed, but most states that I've heard of issue at least two doe tags and one buck tag.  (I said most, so nobody get all worked up if you get fewer than that)  Louisiana is three antlerless, two antlered, and one either sex.  

But let's say every hunter gets two doe tags.  Now if half fill one tag and half fill both tags, then reducing it to one doe tag per hunter would reduce the total doe harvest by 1/3.  If Trad hunters are typically less successful, then odds are that they're less likely to fill both tags than compound hunters.  That means they are affected less by the reduction in tags, but everybody gets to keep their season, and the other hunters can't gripe about trad archers getting special treatment.  I know I've over simplified the issue, but it beats shortening the season in my book.

[RodL]

If a state would decide to have a traditional only season for whatever reasons who would be responsible for the definition of "Traditional" archery and decide what is and what is not allowed during this season. I would think this could be a potential issue with how each person defines "Traditional"

Rodney

[Michael Arnette]

First, we need good exposure. We ( and I mean all hunters) will need individual states to offer public hunting areas which are under draw systems to have a traditional only game land/wildlife management area (perhaps along with other management hunts as well)
Personally I think a traditional  or primitive archery season of some type is a must, now may not be the time but at some point technologies such as the air bow will begin to creep into archery only seasons.  Also, as crossbows become more and more popular bow hunting with compound bows will become less and less popular,  we are already seeing it in many eastern states. I foresee in the next 20 years a compound bow becoming obsolete. It is at this point that we will want to have our foot in the door for a  traditional/no cams/weeks archery season.

Speaking of individual wildlife areas being traditional only, Oklahoma has one here at the McAllister Army ammunition plant, Oregon has a draw hunt that is traditional only as well I think. This would allow private land owners to utilize their properties as they like the public land to have more opportunities for primitive equipment.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, modern archers will quickly become interested in the improved trophy and hunting quality on these lands and this will offer good exposure for a traditional only management system when the time comes.

[Michael Arnette]

Originally posted by dagwood64:
I think that could possibly cause a rift in the bow hunting community, between Traditional and wheelies/x-bows. The antis would love to see that.
We are all in this together.

You bring up a good point and this is the mantra that those folks who are pushing new technologies are using. I for one am very tired of hearing this argument! Do you think Fred bear, pope, young, case and others caused a rift between hunters when they and fought for our first bow hunting seasons! Yes they did!  The first archery seasons did bring intense debate and much bad publicity, however they one out in the end and we have lengthy seasons that most of the nations do not because of it!
The argument for primitive seasons in a nutshell:
"Minimize effectiveness to maximize opportunity"

If we take a slow approach many who are like-minded but shoot compounds as of now will come to our side in the future

[Michael Arnette]

Originally posted by RodL:
If a state would decide to have a traditional only season for whatever reasons who would be responsible for the definition of "Traditional" archery and decide what is and what is not allowed during this season. I would think this could be a potential issue with how each person defines "Traditional"

Rodney

It's pretty simple:
No wheels or cams, 0 let off
No Release mechanism (with a handicap clause)
No electronic rangefinding equipment
No sights (this is debatable and probably not necessary)

BTW I've been watching these questions surface on social media and other websites and I'm compiling a list of the counter arguments, i'll be posting on social media to address some of these arguments which are both poor and good points.

[Michael Arnette]

Oops double post, sorry about the errors AutoCorrect on a smart phone can be annoying