Using a back quiver (Hill Style)

[Learner]

While perusing a Hill thread here, I ran across this video by member Chuck Hakari ("akbowbender").  I felt that it should be shared again for the benefit of newbies such as myself:

   

After seeing John Schulz's video a few months back, I adopted this method, with one exception:  I still nock under, rather than over as John and Howard taught.  I don't find it to be much more difficult.  And if I try someone else's bow, I don't need to change my method.

Thank you, Chuck, for this video.  It was very well done.  Nice camera work, also!

[two4hooking]

The Hill method as taught by John is certainly the most efficient in terms of economy of motion.  

This does not mean other methods can not be as fast or comfortable if practiced enough.  

Bob Swinehart describes using a nocking method where he brings the arrow onto the string from inside the bow instead of coming down on the string from above.  He was certainly able to become efficient at that by the number of arrows in a charging elephant LOL

 

Personally I learned to do it the Hill / Schulz way it seemed to favor speed from the back quiver in that economy of motion theory, but other methods will certainly work if practiced consistently enough.

[crazynate]

I use the same method as John describes in his video except I also knock under. I don't think I'm faster nocking above. It takes practice but I can grab an arrow nock and draw without looking pretty quick.

[Learner]

Originally posted by crazynate:
I use the same method as John describes in his video except I also knock under. I don't think I'm faster nocking above. It takes practice but I can grab an arrow nock and draw without looking pretty quick.

[Learner]

Originally posted by two4hooking:
The Hill method as taught by John is certainly the most efficient in terms of economy of motion.  

This does not mean other methods can not be as fast or comfortable if practiced enough.  

Bob Swinehart describes using a nocking method where he brings the arrow onto the string from inside the bow instead of coming down on the string from above.  He was certainly able to become efficient at that by the number of arrows in a charging elephant LOL

   

Personally I learned to do it the Hill / Schulz way it seemed to favor speed from the back quiver in that economy of motion theory, but other methods will certainly work if practiced consistently enough.

Thanks for this, Greg.

I think what has drawn me to this style is both the fluid motion, and not having to look at my bow when nocking an arrow.

I've watched a lot of trad videos where the archer spends wasted time pulling an arrow from a "non-back" quiver by the shaft, bringing it through the bow in a convoluted motion, nocking it, and finally addressing the string.  All the while, their eyes are off of the target, which would seem not so great for hunting.

The Hill method just seems so right.    

[Rick Butler]

Excellent article in the current issue of TBM on using the Traditional Back Quiver.

On some bows I use two points, I can feel them with my thumb and hit the string without needing to slide the arrow.  If you are ever trying to get one particular arrow out of your quiver and you see the sun go by twice, you need to adjust it.

[Learner]

Originally posted by pavan:
On some bows I use two points, I can feel them with my thumb and hit the string without needing to slide the arrow.  If you are ever trying to get one particular arrow out of your quiver and you see the sun go by twice, you need to adjust it.

[Chad R]

I have trouble reaching my arrows.  I noticed in the TBM article their back quivers are almost horizontal.   Not sure it will help but thought I would give t a try.

[Chad R]

That is a great video.  He has it over to the side too.  Thanks for sharing.

In real hunting situations when I have a coat on, when still hunting rabbits and pheasants and sometimes deer, I find that simply giving the strap a little tug up by my shoulder, is just as fast and easier than trying to bump it with my elbow.

[Deno]

You're right pavan.  After a bit of practice
the tug or the bump becomes automatic.  Pulling the arrow and nocking it without looking becomes easier the more you do it.
Deno

[ChuckC]

Ha... try doing it left handed !

It is good to watch these sort of videos because it gives you clues as to ways to overcome problems that you have ( and others have), so you don't have to invent the wheel.  You may not do it exactly as proposed by others, but it gives you ideas as to what can be done, or even that something CAN be done.

[Flingblade]

I have a Hill style back quiver but have never tried using it for hunting.  The video shared is very good but shows the problem I have and that is too much noise.  Noise from the shafts rattling against each other and noise from the shaft you are drawing against the other shafts as it comes out.  How do you guys deal with the noise when a whitetail is inside the 25 yard range?  Is there something I have missed that is used in a hunting situation?  Also, I don't want to have to resharpen my heads everyday because they dulled from banging against each other in the quiver.  Do any of you use a foam block in the bottom to press the heads into to keep them from dulling?  I do love the fluid nature of drawing, nocking and shooting from the Hill style quiver.  If I can address these two problems I'd like to give it a try in a spot and stalk hunting situation.

My deer this year.  I needed to shift my spot, which happens very often the last hour of the day when thermals shift.   About 40 yards from that spot, I turned to see a buck about 25 yards away staring straight at me.   I could not get my water bottle into a pocket so I slid it under the stretch belt that held my Nifty seat.  I had three arrows out and arranged earlier, when I put them back they crossed horns with my blunts that did not stay at one end of the bottom like I wanted, (this quiver did not have a bottom divider lace). When I pulled on a broad head arrow, it felt like half of the quiver wanted to come along. I picked another same, third time is a charm.  The buck was acting nervous, but looked away long enough to get the arrow on the string.  He looked back flick his tail and made a hop, and then went on with his business like nothing was wrong.  That was his mistake.

[Learner]

Originally posted by Flingblade:
I have a Hill style back quiver but have never tried using it for hunting.  The video shared is very good but shows the problem I have and that is too much noise.  Noise from the shafts rattling against each other and noise from the shaft you are drawing against the other shafts as it comes out.  How do you guys deal with the noise when a whitetail is inside the 25 yard range?  Is there something I have missed that is used in a hunting situation?  Also, I don't want to have to resharpen my heads everyday because they dulled from banging against each other in the quiver.  Do any of you use a foam block in the bottom to press the heads into to keep them from dulling?  I do love the fluid nature of drawing, nocking and shooting from the Hill style quiver.  If I can address these two problems I'd like to give it a try in a spot and stalk hunting situation.

Greg Ragan ("two4hooking" here on the forums) addresses these issues in his article in the latest issue of Traditional Bowhunter Magazine (Feb-March 2017 issue).  The article is directed specifically at Hill-style back quivers.  It is entitled "Hunting with a Back Quiver".  I found it to be very helpful.

Best wishes,
Frank

[two4hooking]

Thanks for the kind words about my article guys.          :    

I hope it helps someone.  

[ChuckC]

From my point of view... if your arrows are rattling when you move, you are moving too fast.

I have a single arrow tie on sheath on my bow.  It weighs nothing and is there to protect me front he arrow point as I carry an arrow and bow together in my hand.  There is no noise of extracting the arrow using that.

Rarely do I need a second shot at something like a deer (not cause I am so certain with the first as much as they tend to get out of Dodge).
ChuckC

[Learner]

Once I flattened my quiver, as Greg describes in his article, the arrows don't rattle, nor do they fall out.

Last night I gave it a good oiling with Montana Pitch-Blend Leather Conditioner, both inside and out.  This should help soften it, and also condition and waterproof it.  It darkened the unfinished surfaces slightly, and the suede string pouch a lot.  But that doesn't bother me.

But that pitch/mink oil formula does have an odor.  Not a bad one, but hopefully the forest critters don't think it's human scent!

Actually, maybe it will help, with the deer thinking that I'm a mink or a pine tree!      

[Learner]

Here is my new Hill 22" RH quiver (stiff leather version).  I just treated it inside and out, with the Montana Pitch-Blend Leather Oil & Conditioner product.

(This image is very slightly lighter looking than it actually is, due to the settings chosen by my phone camera):

 

The MPB oil darkened the unfinished side of the leather (top cuff and inside), but just a little.  When you first apply it (I used their horsehair brush to apply) it got really dark.  But after it soaked in, and I rubbed it down with a cotton cloth, the original color returned, only slightly "richer" looking.

I also treated the suede string pouch.  This pouch soaked in a lot of the product, so even after I wiped it down and pressed it for a while inside some paper towels with a book on top, it stayed darker and the nap was matted in places.  I was able to fix most of the nap matting by brushing with a suede nap brush.  So the pouch is quite a bit darker than originally, but again, I like the look.  Eventually the soft suede would have absorbed dirt and finger oils anyway, and started looking stained.  So again, I don't mind the darkening here, either.