Modern traditional archery too high tech?

[Michael Arnette]

Well the original poster said it himself, if the difference between extremely modern bows and extremely primitive selfbow is negligible then the answer is no, technology has not advanced to a point to make a great difference in traditional archery.
I've started shooting a Selfbow seriously recently and it has cut my effective range by about 10 yards (from 30 to 20 yards) so yes it's tougher to use the selfbow but it still traditional archery either way.

You would be hard-pressed to put a modern recurve that shoots 195 ft./s-ish next to a modern compound that shoots over 300 ft./s and has 90% or more light off

[Michael Arnette]

I might add, for those of you old fogeys who often compare traditional equipment to compounds and don't see in advantage one over the other, you need to go shoot a top-of-the-line compound, it will blow your mind how different compound technology is from even just 10 or 15 years ago.

Hand shock is nonexistent in these bows, let off is ridiculous, draw cycle is unbelievable, and overall stability and balance is beyond anything that could've been imagined in the 90s

[mgf]

I don't know...there's only so much you can do to a single string bow. If you change the materials or, even mount a sight, it's still a bow and it's still not all that easy to be good with.

I've tried my hand at building self bows with limited success, I just bought an ILF (plain Jane wood riser)...******** trident.

And, I just came in from shooting may "canoe bow". It's a short little solid glass job with a molded plastic handle marked 40# @ 28".

The thing I put the most effort/investment into is my own skill. When I do my job well I can hit the target with just about any bow. From there I can shoot what I like.

[mgf]

Originally posted by pavan:
I have been told three times that there was no place for us to hunt on public land because one or two guys loaded it up with their tree stands.   In NW Iowa, the land that has a Pope and Young buck hiding behind every tree, guys are showing up with pick up loads of tree stands and trail cameras and then telling people to stay away from their spots.   Almost every year the game warden tells me, a still hunt hunter and portable seat carrier, that I cannot kick people out of my tree stands, when I do not use any.  He has yet to tell any of the land hoarders that same thing.  So now I am raising hell at the state level,  I did it before and we got a tree stand law.  That law needs serious modifications, considering the  changes in hunters equipment and land use.   The problem when land and game management gets political, money talks louder than reason.

That sure rings a bell.

I have several state WMA's close to home and one that's real close.

Starting in September the place is loaded with tree stands. I don't have anything against tree stands but these guys are homesteading!. LOL

Especially on the weekend, I'm afraid to go into the woods for fear that I'll mess things up for one of the homesteaders.

You can't go "way back in there" because there is no such thing. They've cut access trails (or whatever they are) everywhere.

I just haven't been able to learn how to enjoy hunting such a place. I need to because I don't have much else to hunt. I just don't feel like I'm hunting when I'm there.

[McDave]

Should be room for everybody.  If a person is happy hunting or competing with a homemade self bow, he probably won't be happy hunting or competing with a modern recurve, and vice versa.

Just like when my wife and I go backpacking.  She carries a split bamboo fly rod and flies she made herself, and I carry a factory made spinning rod and lures.  Neither of us would be happy using the other's gear.  Some people are unhappy with both of us because we fish to eat, rather than catch and release.  I think people would be happier in general if they paid more attention to their own business and less to mine!

[mgf]

I wonder what difference it makes.

All of the bow hunters I know locally use a compound. Most of them have never shot a "trad" bow and I'm sure that none of them have any idea where I'm "coming from". LOL

Can I brag a little? We have to be careful about doing that on some of these forums because we have some accomplished shooters (I'm really not one of them) and we have some VERY accomplished hunters and I'm not really one of those either. LOL

I work with several "bowhunters" who all use compounds and crossbows. All of them are from farm families and they have lots of great land to hunt...while I have nothing of the sort.

This year I'm the only one of the bunch to legally take a buck during bow season. I have to stress "LEGALLY" because folks around here kill deer all the time. They kill them when they want and how they want.

I became something of a celebrity with my daughters in-laws (compound and crossbow hunters all) because I took mine with a "longbow". It was an Omega Delta (3 piece take-down).

I just shoot what I like and hunt how I like. I just wish I had more and/or better places to hunt.

[forestdweller]

Well I'm glad that we could get a good discussion going! I'm starting to get cabin fever and have not been able to shoot as much as I normally do and I was debating making this post as I did not want to seem disrespectful.

Some interesting things were brought up so far though. I definitely do believe each archer should go their own way.

My path of progression has been an interesting one.

I started out shooting a glass recurve with aluminum arrows with the intention of learning Olympic style archery. I then learned to shoot instinctive ( did not know that it existed) and learned about Byron and Hill and took the rest of my bow and started to shoot off the shelf.

I then became very interested in the longbow and bought my first glass longbow some time after that. I then decided I wanted to start to learn how to make my own bows and bought a plank of wood from home depot, made my first bow and I am now hooked and want to make my own wooden arrows and selfbows.

It seems like the better I get shooting wise and the more progress I make the more I am regressing in terms of how minimalist and simpler my equipment becomes.  

I most definitely have a lot of respect for the bowyers that are pushing the limits with their glass/carbon/foam bow designs and it's good to see them able to make a living that has to deal with traditional archery. One can only dream to do what they are doing.

[mgf]

Originally posted by forestdweller:
Well  

It seems like the better I get shooting wise and the more progress I make the more I am regressing in terms of how minimalist and simpler my equipment becomes.  

 

That's something I can relate too.

It might be counter intuitive but simple tools usually require more skill on the part of the user.

A hammer is one of the best examples I can think of. A really simple tool, right? But, as   farrier and blacksmith of going on 40 years I'll tell you that very few really know how to use one...I'm still trying. LOL

The tool is simple but the skill is complex. The same is true with a bow. The bow (the kind we shoot), being a "simple machine", is a little more complex than a hammer but still requires significant skill to be used well.

If you have the knowledge and skill, you can make a decent bow from a tree branch. If you have the knowledge and skill, you can hit your target with it.

What do you really own, or have control over in this world? IMO, only what's in your head and in your own hands.

[BlacktailBowhunter]

Originally posted by Travisc406:
that's the beauty of what archery it is, its individual and whatever you want it to be.  My bow is an extension of what my personality is. I feel when you look at my bow you can see who I am.

  I could care less what the guy next to me is shooting. As long as he isn't cheating on regulations or laws. So be it.

I agree.

I like to think regardless of what we shoot. We're all on the same team.

Saying that you won't say names, appears divisive to me, but I could be wrong.

I use a clicker, so if you feel like you're more of a traditional hunter than me, because you don't use a clicker, congratulations.

Us clicker guys may be the bottom feeders of the trad world, but we're still above the guys that shoot the super recurves with carbon foam laminated limbs.  

[T Sunstone]

As long as it's hand drawn hand held without any mechanical advantage I'm in.

[Sam McMichael]

To each his own. It does not matter what anyone else thinks about a given archer's choice of equipment. Some lean toward more modern, and some prefer to remain very low tech, but it remains an individual choice. It seems a bit of a pissing contest to say that this or that is more appropriately traditional than some other set up. I don't mean to be offensive, but this is, in my opinion, a senseless debate. Just pick up your bow and shoot it!

[Soonerlongbow]

The fact is that as long as we are railing against technological advances in the archery world then we really need to realize that by having some of those same materials and technology in our chosen bows then we're just being hypocritical.
Foam cores, carbon fiber limbs, aluminum risers, IFL limb pockets, etc....
These are all highly advanced materials or construction methods that, while they still are more challenging than a compound bow, we're only fooling ourselves by claiming to be more righteous than the wheel bow guys.
We can't attack those that use other means to bow hunt. That includes various compounds, lever bows and even x-bows. It makes us no better than whacked out liberal tree huggers that claim to be "better" because they only eat vegetables or only store bought meat.
We don't have to like those methods.
We don't have to use them.

But we do have to at least live with them or be just a bunch of hypocrites.

[ChuckC]

I draw my line in the sand well below what is available, in terms of technology, and I seem to be reverting.  But... that is simply my line and should affect nobody else.

Originally posted by forestdweller:
Anyone else feel the same way?

NO!!!!!!

Bisch

[crazynate]

What's high tech to one guy might not be to another. I bet guys 60years ago would've take any  advantage they had. They shot wood arrows and made they're bows by hand. We call it traditional but I think they would've used whatever they could to make them better. I don't think we should discuss what high tech with all the xbows and xguns and all this "trophy" hunting ruining our sport. If someone said something to me about shooting carbons I would just laugh. Come on really

[kennym]

I've shot with guys carrying compounds and simple selfbows. I didn't worry about what they were shooting and really could care less if they worried about what I carried.

Shoot what you like , but please don't look down on folks who don't shoot exactly the same stuff as you.  

[David Mitchell]

Forestdweller, I have yet to see a recurve or longbow that could easily be mistaken for a compound.        I don't get my panties in a wad about whatever material is used for bows or arrows. Wheels are a completely different animal, but I have no issue with guys who prefer or need for some reason to shoot them. To each his/her own.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by mgf:
 

Originally posted by forestdweller:
Well  

It seems like the better I get shooting wise and the more progress I make the more I am regressing in terms of how minimalist and simpler my equipment becomes.  

 

That's something I can relate too.

It might be counter intuitive but simple tools usually require more skill on the part of the user.

A hammer is one of the best examples I can think of. A really simple tool, right? But, as   farrier and blacksmith of going on 40 years I'll tell you that very few really know how to use one...I'm still trying. LOL

The tool is simple but the skill is complex. The same is true with a bow. The bow (the kind we shoot), being a "simple machine", is a little more complex than a hammer but still requires significant skill to be used well.

If you have the knowledge and skill, you can make a decent bow from a tree branch. If you have the knowledge and skill, you can hit your target with it.

What do you really own, or have control over in this world? IMO, only what's in your head and in your own hands. [/b]

To your point, it's not the simple hammer ( or the bow), it's the farrier ( archer's) skill. That said, a really good archer will shoot most bows well. Compound, ILF recurve, custom longbow  or self bow. Form is everything!

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by BlacktailBowhunter:
 

Originally posted by Travisc406:
that's the beauty of what archery it is, its individual and whatever you want it to be.  My bow is an extension of what my personality is. I feel when you look at my bow you can see who I am.

  I could care less what the guy next to me is shooting. As long as he isn't cheating on regulations or laws. So be it.

I use a clicker, so if you feel like you're more of a traditional hunter than me, because you don't use a clicker, congratulations.

Us clicker guys may be the bottom feeders of the trad world, but we're still above the guys that shoot the super recurves with carbon foam laminated limbs.       [/b]

I know you must not feel this way, but no one is better than another. Trad archers who shoot wood bows as well as the greats like Fred Bears, Etal, are no better than those who use clicker or fancy ILF bows with foam core limbs.

[Kevin Dill]

Originally posted by Soonerlongbow:
....as long as we are railing against technological advances in the archery world...

But some of us simply use what we enjoy and don't spend a bit of time railing against other equipment or those that use it.