Modern traditional archery too high tech?

Originally posted by Soonerlongbow:
More accurate to say several. Alaska Bowhunting Suppy is one of them. I've seen other as well, typically majority carbon construction or similar.

Again, please show us a recurve bow with a 300fps AMO speed. I do not believe that bow exists!

And btw, I do agree with you that we should stick together, and quit worrying about whose stuff is better!

Bisch

Originally posted by Bisch:
Again, please show us a recurve bow with a 300fps AMO speed. I do not believe that bow exists!

Black Swan claims their bow shoots 300fps IBO (not AMO).  IBO tests speed at 70 lbs, 5gpp, 30" draw.

 web page

Do I believe it?  No.

[highlow]

Hey Sooner. Just went to Alaska Bowhunting Supply and they don't even carry bows. Broadheads, yes. Really, where do you get your info? Your credibility has taken a serious hit.

[Greg Owen]

I saw a video on youtube yesterday where a Black Swan hybrid was chrono'd at 250 fps and if I remember right it was 48# draw with about 8gpi arrow. I will look it up.  There is also a video that shows the GrizzlyStik Qarbon Nano Longbow shooting 279 fps at IBO conditions.  It looks like Alaska Bowhunting Supply doesn't sell it anymore. It is distributed by 3 Rivers.

[Greg Owen]

Found the video of the black swan. The comments say "Black Swan Bow.. 48 pb @ 28 inches. with 390 grain arrow.Three chronographed shots. 252, 254,252 feet per second."

The Qarbon Nano was tested at 203 -205 at AMO standard 60# at 9 grains per pound.

[Soonerlongbow]

Originally posted by highlow:
Hey Sooner. Just went to Alaska Bowhunting Supply and they don't even carry bows. Broadheads, yes. Really, where do you get your info? Your credibility has taken a serious hit.

http://www.grizzlystik.com/Qarbon-Nano-QN2-Longbow-C73.aspx

Under the original Qarbon Nano they listed it as 300fps for AMO speed. Now listed at 175fps for a 45# @28.
The Black Swan is also listed @ approximately 300 AMO.

 http://blackswanarchery.com/#/home

Everybody knows that guy that talks about how awesome old cars are yet instead of restoring to original specifications they upgrade to a bigger engine, EFI, disc breaks, etc. Don't get me wrong it's a nice car but it's nothing like the when it rolled off the plant. Does it drive like a modern car? No, but it sure doesn't handle like the show room version either. And theres nothing wrong with that either.  But don't claim it to be all original.

[Soonerlongbow]

Can't we all just get along? That's the real question.

[Kevin Dill]

We can when we're all hunting.

[Ben Maher]

Originally posted by highlow:
Hey Sooner. Just went to Alaska Bowhunting Supply and they don't even carry bows. Broadheads, yes. Really, where do you get your info? Your credibility has taken a serious hit.

They did , and the Nano was reputed at very fast speeds in IBO ratings.
However, with respect , Ed the owner passed away last year and so I am thinking that production stopped with him. He was well known for his b'heads, bows and shafts.

[Greg Owen]

I don't see a listed AMO speed of 300 on the Black Swan site.  The Alaska Bohunting Qarbon Nano is now sold by 3 Rivers.  Traditional is a subjective thing.  Could it be that this same discussion happened back when someone had the audacity to add a string to a stick to throw their spear?  I just enjoy getting out in nature and relaxing a bit.

[Greg Owen]

Oh I found it. The 300 fps on the Black Swan site is an IBO speed, not AMO.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by JohnV:
I don't think you know what you are talking about.  You certainly know little regarding the history of "traditional archery."  Clickers have been around longer than you've been a bowhunter, I bet.  I guess you have never heard of the magnesium-handled Bear take down bow.  I seriously doubt your figures on comparing bow speeds between a tricked out trad recurve and a selfbow.  Not buying your numbers at all.  Made up news like Trump talks about.  You can play the "I'm more traditional than you!" game all you like.  I am not impressed.

If we compare a high draw weight selfbow to a glass backed bow of the same draw weight than the arrow speed would be very close with the same weight arrows. Selfbow's don't reach effeciency until the higher draw weights or if using a design with a lot of reflex/deflex or heavy recurve.

We can take a look at the English longbow which is a selfbow and at 175# draw weight I have heard figures of them casting a quarter pound arrow near 200fps although the person that gave those figures could of very well of been wrong.

As for clickers, I don't care if someone uses them but I think they are missing out by introducing modern technology to their bow. There's something special about shooting a bow bare from any attachments just relying on your own abilities.

I'm sure Bear bow's had magnesium riser but Bear bow's are also relatively new (within the past 60 years or so).

I never said I was more traditional than anyone, I just think that calling some of the bows out there traditional is a misnomer.

Carbon foam limbs with clickers and carbon arrows is not traditional unless we are considering the tradition to be within the past 10 years.

I've seen a few bow's that could pass as a compound that are considered traditional. Namely the ones that have more than one string attached to the limb (due to a clicker) and lot's of recurve with 5/16" cut past center compound style risers.

If we take your standard Olympic FITA recurve setup and strip it from all attachments does it then become a traditional bow?

I never intended to offend anyone, just wanted to start an interesting discussion.

I watched a video of master Bowyer Ed Scott and he was talking about what traditional archery really was and it got me thinking.  

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this post or any other post of mines. If you find anything offensive just let me know and I'll remove it.

[Bladepeek]

My bow has more than one string too. It's got a second string wrapped on the first as a serving. Then it has two more tied on in the form of nocking points. I'll still call it traditional thank you very much.

Many of the game animals that I shoot with longbows, could not be shot with the methods and equipment of most of the compound boys.

[Ulysseys]

To me it's largely marketing driven....the turnover of product in the compound market is a perfect example...if a company can keep you buying it's a successful company....traditional archery lacks that profit margin to large companies for the most part so you see them entering the trad market with the same approach to compounds with performance sales pitches that'll likely change year to year to convince people to keep buying the latest.  You rarely see this in custom bowyers, they just make the models they make and that's it, no real sales pitch, they rarely even mention speed.

[Hummer3T]

Originally posted by Travisc406:
that's the beauty of what archery it is, its individual and whatever you want it to be.  My bow is an extension of what my personality is. I feel when you look at my bow you can see who I am.

  I could care less what the guy next to me is shooting. As long as he isn't cheating on regulations or laws. So be it.

well said,  also if someone needs that stuff to make a ethical kill, good for them

[Ben Maher]

To the OP,
You have started this topic on numerous times elsewhere and that has ended badly each time.
This will go the same way as the others ...

id suggest just leave it that you have an idea as to what trad is that will differ from others. The preoccupation with clickers etc is odd.

[BWallace10327]

Originally posted by forestdweller:
 

Originally posted by JohnV:
I don't think you know what you are talking about.  You certainly know little regarding the history of "traditional archery."  Clickers have been around longer than you've been a bowhunter, I bet.  I guess you have never heard of the magnesium-handled Bear take down bow.  I seriously doubt your figures on comparing bow speeds between a tricked out trad recurve and a selfbow.  Not buying your numbers at all.  Made up news like Trump talks about.  You can play the "I'm more traditional than you!" game all you like.  I am not impressed.

If we compare a high draw weight selfbow to a glass backed bow of the same draw weight than the arrow speed would be very close with the same weight arrows. Selfbow's don't reach effeciency until the higher draw weights or if using a design with a lot of reflex/deflex or heavy recurve.

We can take a look at the English longbow which is a selfbow and at 175# draw weight I have heard figures of them casting a quarter pound arrow near 200fps although the person that gave those figures could of very well of been wrong.

As for clickers, I don't care if someone uses them but I think they are missing out by introducing modern technology to their bow. There's something special about shooting a bow bare from any attachments just relying on your own abilities.

I'm sure Bear bow's had magnesium riser but Bear bow's are also relatively new (within the past 60 years or so).

I never said I was more traditional than anyone, I just think that calling some of the bows out there traditional is a misnomer.

Carbon foam limbs with clickers and carbon arrows is not traditional unless we are considering the tradition to be within the past 10 years.

I've seen a few bow's that could pass as a compound that are considered traditional. Namely the ones that have more than one string attached to the limb (due to a clicker) and lot's of recurve with 5/16" cut past center compound style risers.

If we take your standard Olympic FITA recurve setup and strip it from all attachments does it then become a traditional bow?

I never intended to offend anyone, just wanted to start an interesting discussion.

I watched a video of master Bowyer Ed Scott and he was talking about what traditional archery really was and it got me thinking.  

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this post or any other post of mines. If you find anything offensive just let me know and I'll remove it. [/b]

[fling]

This is how I see it. But first let me say my first love is shooting a selfbow with wood arrows. Next would be my Hill with wood arrows.
I go to a lot of 3D shoots if I go for fun I don't care  what  bow I shoot. If I go to compete than I'm taking my r/d bow and carbon arrows. I want to every bit of performance. It's like any sport or competition you want every edge that's legal. But no matter how modern your equipment  is you still need to know how to shoot.

I never said I was more traditional than anyone, I just think that calling some of the bows out there traditional is a misnomer.  

What exactly is traditional??? The term never even existed until compounds came along, and somebody needed a way to distinguish between the two. It used to be just bow shooting, bowhunting, or archery, then compounds came along and made two different styles. Those two styles needed a way to be referenced.

Traditional does not mean "Done the way it was XXX number of years ago". It is just a label someone came up with to be able to distinguish what we do from what wheel guys do!!!

Bisch