UEFOC

[LB_hntr]

31℅
27.5 inch gold tip shaft double brass inserts totaling 190 grains. 125 grain steel adapter and 135 grain head. Total is 710 grains with 450 up front.
Reason I went this way is I shoot a bunch of judos and can build my judos to weigh the same as my broadheads.
Been shooting this combo for a few years now. Love it. I have a few videos showing that shaft bareshaft shooting with a huge broadhead, how I build it, how it flies in high wind, etc. Hit my link then hit videos and you will find a bunch of info on uefoc arrows.

[Longtoke]

Hey LB_hntr, just wondering have you ever testing how much FoC your set up would have if you used a woody weight rather than a double brass insert?   Just curious...


I really enjoyed your vids on the subject, thanks for the entertainment and info!

[LB_hntr]

Originally posted by Longtoke:
Hey LB_hntr, just wondering have you ever testing how much FoC your set up would have if you used a woody weight rather than a double brass insert?   Just curious...


I really enjoyed your vids on the subject, thanks for the entertainment and info!

Never tried woody weights so can't help there. The double insert system works great as the extra FOC weight is offset by the extra length of the double insert and i did not have to change shaft spine and still get the high FOC weight. Win-win. Extra bonus is the first 3 inches of shaft is super tough due to the double brass insert. Can't tell ya last time I broke a shaft now. Love these arrows! Also the penetration is amazing. Have killed 17 deer with these arrows and complete pass thru shots on 16 of them with a huge Magnus 1.5 inch wide broadhead from a 57# bow and my short little 26" draw length. I used to shoot recurves in the high 70s and other longbows in the mid 60s and never had a track record like that. The last deer I killed this year(the non pass thru) was a medium size doe and I blew thru the shoulder blade and broke the leg on the opposite side. Never had that happen with other arrow set ups!

[damascusdave]

I used to care and then I remember I shoot Trad for the simplicity.

DDave

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by damascusdave:
I used to care and then I remember I shoot Trad for the simplicity.

DDave

X2. I'm not a big fan of the complexity. Even though there are studies by one man showing that very high FOC is highly advantageous to penetration I still don't believe it.

Hunters were blowing through elephants (Bill Negley as one example) with heavy wooden arrows and even penetrating through steel armor with wooden arrows with "regular" FOC.

Has anyone done any moderate to long distance shooting comparisons between regular FOC and very high FOC arrows between 30-50 yards+?

I'd imagine that with a very high FOC would be the further out you go the more the back end of the arrow would be prone to swaying left/right up/down since most of the weight is condensed in the point of the arrow and not spread out mostly evenly throughout the shaft.

[Cari-bow]

Here is my arrow.
Victory RIP xtreme Gamer V3
It comes in at 696 grains
The FOC is 35.138%
This is according to Tuffheads calculator.
Nock seat to front of arrow head insert 29.4375"
Balance point 4.375 from point insert or 25.0625" from nock seat to balance point.

[Longtoke]

heck its not all the complicated, just tune your arrows to a real heavy point.  

If you like to tinker with arrows and start chasing foc then it can get a little more tricky, but thats the joy of tinkering to me.

[bamboo]

" I'm not a big fan of the complexity. Even though there are studies by one man showing that very high FOC is highly advantageous to penetration I still don't believe it. "


---what is so complex about it??
people used to believe the earth was flat too!
 ...then thinking men proved that wrong

purposely designing an arrow to maximize penetration is a valid endeavor--that IMO could save your bacon on a less than perfect shot--
in my book worth the effort

simply taking your normal shaft and screwing 550g on the front will likely give you very poor results and I believe the reason some still disparage the concept

 a lot of real smart hunters are putting this concept to work ---me I don't believe I've ever experienced TOO MUCH penetration!!

  hunt your own way--use whatever arrows you like

[Prairie Drifter]

My current arrow is 27.77%. We'll see how it does in Africa next week. I'll let you know when I get back.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by bamboo:
" I'm not a big fan of the complexity. Even though there are studies by one man showing that very high FOC is highly advantageous to penetration I still don't believe it. "


---what is so complex about it??
people used to believe the earth was flat too!
 ...then thinking men proved that wrong

purposely designing an arrow to maximize penetration is a valid endeavor--that IMO could save your bacon on a less than perfect shot--
in my book worth the effort

simply taking your normal shaft and screwing 550g on the front will likely give you very poor results and I believe the reason some still disparage the concept

 a lot of real smart hunters are putting this concept to work ---me I don't believe I've ever experienced TOO MUCH penetration!!

  hunt your own way--use whatever arrows you like

It's complicated because tuning arrows to EFOC changes a lot of standard principals and makes things very tricky.

For example before I got the right spined arrows for my current bow I was getting a slight stiff reading using .500 spine arrows and 125 grain points out of a 45# bow (about 44# on fingers).

With a 300 grain point they were still showing the same amount stiff yet on some shots they were showing slight weak. I've read other archers problems using very heavy points with light weight arrows.

False stiff/false weak becomes a problem and nock high is more of an issue as well since all of the weight is in the point.

Also shooting past 20 yards and they dropped really hard really fast.

I have played with EFOC and "regular" FOC and got less penetration with the EFOC arrow because of how slow that it was compared to the 125 grain point.

EFOC also does not work with natural shaft material (without a lot of work at least) since most wood arrows are naturally heavy.

Wooden arrows in the standard FOC range have worked for hunters up until the point where EFOC was invented. Now you need EFOC or else you are in trouble (kidding about that point).

For me EFOC causes weird arrow flight and a poor trajectory that want's to nose dive.

But if it works for you keep doing it.

I got into traditional archery to keep the equipment side as simple as possible and not have to use calculators or weird mathematics like algebra.

A heavy arrow with sufficient velocity will break bones and take down any animal on this planet.

The English were penetrating through steel armor using wooden arrows and they did not use EFOC to my knowledge.

[LB_hntr]

High efoc or not. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to do it or not. But advise on high efoc should be given by people that have used high efoc. If you have not used it and don't know anything about it your opinion is kind of irrelevant. No offense. But no reason to defend anything when nobody is attacking anything.

I will say I have killed alot of big game animals over the last 25 years. I mean alot. Many with cedar, many with fir, many with aluminum, many with carbon. Standard FOC, high FOC, extreme FOC and ultra extreme FOC. For me the proof is in the pudding. Never once during all these years have I ever went backwards with FOC. Always more and more.
As someone that has experience on all aspects of arrows I will just say. I promise you in hunting situations you will do better with a higher efoc arrow....Period. weather you decide to go that route or not is up to you. But it is real, it is proven by my own experiences, as well as many others. Accept that or don't. Do it or don't. But don't ever try to disqualify the power of it. If there was a better arrow set up out there I would be using it. And in that constant search for the perfect arrow I have never went to less efoc ever!

[Shadowhnter]

LB_hntr, well said.

[katman]

Well we stayed on topic longer than I thought before the naysayers butted in. If you want to discuss foc start your own thread.

In case you did not read the original post.

"Please, this is not an foc debate. Thanks.

[forestdweller]

Deleted out of respect to original posters request.

[Longtoke]

I have a 31% foc arrow thats about 11 gpp....  being able to shoot longer distances in the wind is one of the reasons I like my arrow set up.   once they are tuned they seem to fly as straight as any of my tuned woodies. I never noticed any of the different arrow builds nose diving....  just my experience,

[damascusdave]

Any post that gets Mr. Abe Penner going is a good one. And he is bang on. Odd how people who agree are not debating and those who disagree are debating. In Canada we believe in freedom of speech and just say what we think.

DDave

[katman]

Dave, the question posted specifically asked for ones efoc results and not an foc debate as I feared this would degrade to. My thought was this information may help others with a place to start if they want to try higher foc. The new topic button is available for anyone to use.

Thank you forestdweller.

Hope we can get back on topic if anyone else has efoc configuration information to share.

[Shadowhnter]

I'll share mine, but it tends to drag out verbal brawls for some reason.

This season,I used a purple heart footed cedar shaft, front loaded with 425gr. Yes, the arrow is a heavy one coming in at 825gr. My bow is not cut to center, and lower lb draw allowing me to get UEFOC. Those particular arrows are a bit over 31%. I killed a nice big doe this year at 15 yards with them. Those arrows were the end product of testing, trying, and figuring for almost a year, and it was a blast. My 17 yr old son has a similar set up on aluminums that are 27%, and he took a nice buck at 12 yards. Amazing what those arrows did.

[BWD]

Think of EFOC as front wheel drive. It's pulling instead of pushing.

[Orion]

Don 't do anything spectacular with my skinny carbons.  I get about 23-24% depending on the head I use (about 300 to 350 grains in total up front, 29 inches BOP).  Been very pleased with the results and haven't tried to go higher, though probably could with a heavier spined shaft.

Have been able to achieve just shy of 20% with wood arrows.  11/32 shafts footed with a standard length hardwood shaft and tapered the back 9-10 inches or so. 160 grain head, 29 inches BOP.
Could probably go higher here, too, but adding more weight up front requires more spine. Difficult to find in POC.