UEFOC

[John146]

I shoot 22% FOC and I really noticed how awesome this principle works when I went from 57# to 47# at 28" draw.

I get as good of penetration at 47#'s as I did with other arrows with my 57# limbs. It is a very simple way to increase penetration without having to go to a really heavy arrow.

Years ago I was just trying to increase overall arrow weight and did not know about FOC. It is nice to stay at the 10gpi threshold and get better penetration by getting the FOC up. I shoot carbons.

[Doc Nock]

I remember a chat with the EFOC Doc (real one, retired eye surgeon, not one who has such a handle on the net)   :rolleyes:   and we chuckled how we bugged carbon makers to up the weight of shafts for us trad. They did, now we want spine without the weight so we can front weight without getting rebar weight arrows!  

I used to do the weed eater thing back when carbons came on the scene, and some were filling shafts with condiments (really!)pull the nock and season your kill over the fire I guess.

AS I dropped draw weight, I become far more interested in improving penetration...

it's like "hunting the wind"... good policy if you have extensive enough cover to do that but some areas only have patchworks of small cover to hunt legally, so then you best find other resources...

Same with penetration. It's not a concern for everyone and the great news is, "do what you feel is best!"  No holy grail here!    

[dennis502]

I've come up with 2 different EFOC arrow recipes for the bows I shoot the most. For my 51 and 54# Silvertips, I was able to achieve 27% FOC at a fairly light arrow weight of 450 grains:

-Victory RIP XV .400 shaft at apx. 29 1/8”
-Victory Stainless SHOK half outsert
-200 grain head
-Three 4” parabolic feathers
-Easton Axis X nock

For my main hunting bows (Silvertip 60# and Habu 61#), the following arrow comes in at 640 grains and 30.3% FOC:

-Victory RIP XV .300 shaft at apx. 29 ½” (these shafts run 7.0 GPI)
-a 50 grain Easton Axis (breakoff) insert below a 100 grain brass Axis insert from 3 Rivers (150 gr total)
-1” 1916 aluminum shaft as an external footing
-Three 4” parabolic feathers
-Easton Axis X nock
-250 grain head

[sticksnstones]

My best to date is 33.0% on a 900 grain arrow.

I'm working on something special right now and I think I might be able to push it higher. More to come in a few weeks.
Thom

[katman]

Dennis502, nice. How do you find the durability of the Victory RIP XV shafts, especially the 400 spine?

[dennis502]

Katman-

Not nearly as durable as the Easton Trad Axis I used for years. The Victory RIP's will not survive a hard strike as well as some other options. There's no denying that and there is no free lunch.

However, I've (slowly) adopted the view of my arrows as a relatively inexpensive consumable item. I shoot almost every day from May through September (and hunt hard September-November) and I still don't destroy/lose more than 18 arrows a year. That's less than $200. I spend that much on ammo for a weekend of running my pistols or a couple of nights out with my wife.

Everyone has a different matrix for what they consider expensive, but for me I consider the enhanced performance of these shafts worth the loss in durability. This was my first season using them (5 whitetails, one bull elk, bunch of small game) and I will be shooting them again next season.

[smokin joe]

Since I have had to move down in draw weight (due to a shoulder replacement) getting more FOC has become more important. I want to make sure my arrows are as lethal as possible. I am at 18.5% now (not too bad) and looking to work up a formula for something over 20% if I can assemble the right parts.

I do think I'm OK so far with 11.5 GPP at 18.5% -- but I like to tinker with arrows, so I'll keep at it. Gold Tip Velocity shafts seem promising.

[Friend]

There is no advantage in penetration gains under 19% FOC. The increases just beyond 19% are revealed by close analysis. From a personal experience perspective, the 25% mark penetration increases are easily verifiable. Beyond that, the penetration increases a much more pronounced...the increase in FOC form upper EFOC to UEFOC are visibly not linear.

Utilizing 400 gn up front on a 611 gn total wt UEFOC arrow has yielded penetration from brisket to an 6-8" exit of the inner thigh utilizing a Big 3...deer just laid down on the spot...was utilizing a 52# bow.

On the flip side, this setup is far more than I require (extremely hard on targets)for the game I pursue. Note: Excellent shootabilty yet more than I need...often times requiring an arrow puller to remove arrows from 3D targets.

If setup properly, your own observations will serve you best.

[Hermon]

Friend-
Could you please describe your shaft/point combo?

[Friend]

Hermon...

Victory HV350....10 gn nock...28 5/8" shaft...100 gn insert...300 gn point...611 gn total arrow wt

[KyRidgeRunner]

Thanks to everyone that's replied.  I'm very interested in this and have gotten some good advice/knowledge from this thread.

[katman]

Finished my latest efoc arrow. Black Eagle x-impact full length 350, 33" with outsert, 325 point plus 45gr outsert= 370gr up front. Total weight 631gr. Plan to try increase point weight to hit Ashby bone threshold of 650gr. Right now foc 28.8%. That's with 4x4 parabolics, plan to try 4x4 A&H fletch to compare.

May try the 400's next and see if I have enough arrow to shorten and tune with 325gr point.Oh the lulls of winter.

[Longtoke]

You could try a lighter insert and using a woody weight to shift more of the weight to the tip of the shaft.  That should give you a nice little bump in foc.  

The brass insert would make for a more robust arrow though I would think.

[Friend]

katman...why 650 gns...are you hunting Asiatic buffalo?

The Ashby bone threshold was established based on possibly the toughest critter to penetrate on the planet next to pachyderms.

[sticksnstones]

This is the reason I observe the rule of 650 grains even on average to small game:
 https://youtu.be/AhSzRAVdJKU?t=2m30s

[Friend]

The aforementioned is absolutely not a rule.

A rule is an explicit or understood regulation or principal governing conduct.

As a major proponet of Dr. Ashby, it is difficult to dismiss the the hyperfocus on gaining an edge which in total may account for less than 5% of what is required to consistantly harvest game. Assuming a moderate arrow design and tuned arrow applicable to the game pursued, the exceedingly number one element for success, is typically omitted as if the mind is preset for failure.

The exceedingly largest available gain to be made resides behind the bow. Execute a shot that your mind most confidently owns.

Know your own personal setup and its limitations, focus and perform the shot sequence with total confidence.

[Gdpolk]

I shoot 21% simply because it flies well out of my bow.  I've never tried for higher.  Thats Gold Tips with 100gr inserts and 125gr heads.

[katman]

Originally posted by Friend:
katman...why 650 gns...are you hunting Asiatic buffalo?

The Ashby bone threshold was established based on possibly the toughest critter to penetrate on the planet next to pachyderms.

Nope, just the lull of winter and playing around. I am going to stick with this setup for that particular bow. Point on is 25 yards with that 33" shaft. Been trying fixed crawl and now no need to crawl. Have not chroned it yet but it shoots so darn good I don't care about the speed.

[katman]

Originally posted by Longtoke:
You could try a lighter insert and using a woody weight to shift more of the weight to the tip of the shaft.  That should give you a nice little bump in foc.  

The brass insert would make for a more robust arrow though I would think.

Got to stick with the outsert for the .165 id x-impact. The outsert does foot the shaft some. Going to stay with it the way it is, shoots to darn good.

[Shadowhnter]

According to Ashby, 650 gr is the minimum recommended bone breaking threshold for deep penetration in standard sized big game... 900gr is the recommended minimum for bone breaking threshold for deep penetration on the super sized large game animals.