Couple of newbie questions...

[-Zor]

A few weeks ago I picked up a (1970s) Black Bear 45#@28 and 60" amo. I'm 5'10" and draw a 28" wheel bow so I figured 60" was a safe bet. My questions are as follows:
1. I smack my arm quite frequently. I think I'm gripping the bow appropriately and I don't lock out my elbow. Am I attempting to draw too far? Am I torquing the bow when I release the string? To save my arm I made a leather arm guard, but I find that if the string hits the guard there is definitely an effect on arrow flight.
2. My 5o'clock fletchings are getting the destroyed rather quickly. The barbs are being pulled off the stems. The rest looks like a rug rest? Definitely a synthetic material and theres a small piece of suede on the vertical portion of the riser. My feathers are Trueflight and I fletched them with a dot of glue on the front and back after pulling them out of the jig just like I do plastic vanes. Do I need more glue? Different rest material? Or is this normal?
3. Turkey hunting... I have a spring public land tag for a merriams gobbler in Arizona. There are a lot of tags for this unit so I'll have to pack in a ways to avoid other hunters. What do you guys use for lightweight concealment to prevent close birds from spooking as you draw the bow.

Thanks in advance,
Zor

[Orion]

What's your brace height?  If your brace height is too low, there will be too much forward travel of the string at release, and it will hit your arm.  It will also cause the arrow to bounce off the shelf, leading to poor arrow flight.

Arrow spine could also be way off.  You may not draw the same length with a stick bow as you did with a wheel bow.  

Could be other stuff, including form problems, but start with those two parameters.  

Getting drawn on a turkey without being detected is very difficult without a blind. Just wear camo, including face and hand camo or mask and gloves.  Good luck.

[-Zor]

Thanks for the response. I had it braced at 7.25" and moved that up to 7.5" with no change in smacking my forearm. I think that I'm having a form issue or issue with my grip, I just don't know how to isolate and correct it. As for arrow spine, I'm shooting 500 spine beeman ics arrows at 29.5" with 145gr points. This is what was recommended from 3 rivers. I picked up some 175gr points to see if they were overspined with 145gr.

Since posting the above question I also researched the condition of my rug rest and realized that it was the culprit for shredding my 5 o'clock fletch. I desided to try a bear weather rest since some folks say they are more forgiving than the shelf.

After the change in rest and point weight I find that my groups are still to the left and above my percieved aiming point at 15 yards. (And thats with me looking down the arrow shaft to align left/right on my target)

As for gobblers and drawing without detection, I'm fine packing in a blind if there's a blind that you can draw a 60" bow inside of and is reasonable to strap to a backpack and hike into a spot off the beaten path. If a blind like that doesn't exist, what are your tactics besides camo for drawing on a close in tom?

[hawkeye n pa]

Sounds like you might have some torque in your bow grip.  Are you trying to keep your "life line" in line with the grip and not shooting with tight fist?  Along with what Orion said try opening up your stance a little or even a lot just to see if that helps.

I shoot a rug rest with out tearing off the feathers, sounds like a tuning issue.

I also hunt turkeys with out a blind, but it is challenging (tough) to get drawn.  I like to have a "natural" blind if possible.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

I agree with the above posters.  

Try moving your brace height to 8.5.  See if there's any change. I know it sounds high but I like my grizzly at 8 1/4.  The black bear and grizzly are pretty similar.

I think hitting your arm could be part of the issue of not hitting where you want.

I also think your arrows are bouncing off the shelf causing feather wear. Try a weaker spine or you can increase point weight.  

What arrows are you shooting?  Length, spine and point weight?

Turkeys can be tough.  Plenty of blinds available that are what you describe but it can be tough once you add your other gear.  You can try a Gillie suit.

[-Zor]

Hawkeye, I'm trying to shoot with the bow against my lifeline, same as I do with a compound, and am keeping my fingers relaxed through the shot. I feel like my grip isn't perfect though, but that may be in my head due to the drastic difference in shape between the Bear grip and my compound.

As for arrow spine I didn't see a noticeable difference when going from 145gr points to 175gr. The arrows group in the same place.

When you say open your stance, do you mean feet further apart, or move  my left foot back so my body is open to the target?

[black velvet]

Left foot back. it is also called a power stance. Try turning your palm more to the left and not choking the grip.

[dirtguy]

Do you have an experienced trad shooter who can look at your form? That can be a quick way to resolve some issues.

[Jackpine Boyz]

Watch this.

 

Arne Moe has several other great videos

Also tuning your arrow for spine, nock point, and feather clearance.

[hawkeye n pa]

I may get in trouble for this, but in my experience and helping alot of others usually your draw length shortens when shooting a stickbow compared to a compound.  Has more to do with the let off.   Try a few shots with out maxing out your draw and see if that helps.  And I don't want you shooting hunch back either. And yes left foot back further if your right handed.  This will normally shorten draw length a tad also.

[-Zor]

Dirtguy, I only know one guy that shoots a tradbow in state and he's five hours away. I know of a few guys that shoot them, but not well enough to know their expertise.

Jackpine, I watched that video. He explains things quite clearly and that is exactly how I shoot my wheelbow. Grip pressure against the end of the radius, pronated elbow, bone on bone through the bow arm and remaining static on that side. I think my problem is the change in grip shape to a recurve and my brain not being able to translate over. I think I'd have an easier time with the slender, more vertical grip of a longbow. I may just need to put more time in and allow my hand and brain to figure it out.

Hawkeye, I opened my stance and made a significant improvement in bringing my groups to the right (more in the center of the target) and reduced forearm contact. I noticed that it changed the relationship of my face to the string a bit and I feel myself flinch on some shots. The shots that I've noticed a flinch have not been out of my normal groups though.

I'm also really enjoying shooting this thing and find myself trying to squeeze in a few shots in the backyard before leaving for work, which I never did with a compound. I find the challenge of trying to figure out how to shoot at 15yds much more satisfying than being dead consistent at 80 with a compound. That said, I gave South Cox a call yesterday to talk about the right bow for a guy coming over to traditional archery and asked him if what I think I'm looking for in a hunting recurve makes sense to given my experience (lack of) and hunting style/game I chase.

[Greg Owen]

One quick comment from a newbie. You went from a rug rest to an elevated rest.  You did move your nocking point up on the string for this?  I didn't see it mentioned.

[-Zor]

Yep. Nock moved.

[hawkeye n pa]

Good news Zor, and enjoy!  Best of luck on that turkey!!

[BlacktailBowhunter]

You can't go wrong with South. He's an incredibly well versed hunter and bowyer.

You might try a clicker for consistency. It helps me keep from flinching and plucking as I have target panic.

[Pryor]

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago when I transitioned from compound.  I was shooting a Montana long bow, that would slap my arm and give me different results in arrow flight.  I found that putting more pressure on the grip helped a ton.  My thinking was that with an open grip I was shutting my hand on release and torquing the bow.  Between changing my grip and consistent practice the problems went away.  Good luck

[Bladepeek]

There's a no-cost extra to this site. Post a video with a couple of different angles on the "Form" forum. Picture's worth 1000 words    

Bet you get some help there from people who can see what you are doing wrong instead of just guessing at what it might be. Arne Moe sure helped me a bunch.

[Jackpine Boyz]

Sounds like you got the bug.  Remember to just have fun with it.  I've been hunting exclusively with the longbow now for 5 years and am still amazed at how much I didn't know about archery in general after 20 years of compound shooting.  Form is key, just find a style you like, and don't be afraid to try different things.  

"sneaking" a few arrows in tends to be common with trad bows.  Stump shooting is a blast also.  A lot of times I feel that bow hunting gets in the way of my archery!

Most regular archery clubs have a couple trad meets during the year, that's a good source to find some local guys also.

[-Zor]

Thanks for the encouragement fellas. I'll see if I can figure out a way to capture and post a video to the form section of the site, but no guarantees since technology isn't my strong suit. I've got the Master of the Barebow videos on their way and I'm hoping to get some insight on what style of shooting/aiming suits me from there. What books might a guy look into? The only traditional archery book I've got is 'Ishi in Two Worlds', but that's more about history not shooting.

Thanks again,
Zor

[Captain*Kirk]

Originally posted by -Zor:
Thanks for the encouragement fellas. I'll see if I can figure out a way to capture and post a video to the form section of the site, but no guarantees since technology isn't my strong suit. I've got the Master of the Barebow videos on their way and I'm hoping to get some insight on what style of shooting/aiming suits me from there. What books might a guy look into? The only traditional archery book I've got is 'Ishi in Two Worlds', but that's more about history not shooting.

Thanks again,
Zor

"Shooting The Stickbow",  by Anthony Camera