Flemish string jig question

[Greg Owen]

I spent my sick day at home trying to figure out flemish string jigs. I am a mathematical type. I took a plan I found on tradgang and one I drew up from a description I found on tradgang.  It seems to me that as you add more strands to a bundle that the strand gets shorter and shorter. So my question is this, how long should your shortest strand be for a given length string?  One jig design shortens each added strand by 1" and the other by 0.75".  One design had the 10th strand only 7 inches longer for a 60 inch string, the other was 11 inches longer. That is only 3.5 inches per loop or 5.5 inches per loop.  That is probably enough. But if you added a few more strands you might not have length enough to get through the loop. Thanks for any thoughts.  By the way, I have searched alot for this information and haven't found it.

[DanielB89]

Mine are 1/4" apart.  You're free to do whatever you want.  I've never had a problem.

[Greg Owen]

So 1/4" means you get 1/2" per strand difference. For a 10 strand string bundle that is a 5 inch difference. At some point it would seem a strand might get too short to add any strength. I am wondering why the jigs do it this way. They could easily do it the opposite way so that a many strand bundle would not have any short strands.  I am sure I am overthinking it. I am looking for opinions on how short the shortest strand should be.  I would assume it would be long enough to complete the loop on each end plus a bit. Maybe something like string length plus 8 inches (4 inches per loop)?  I am guessing and just wondering what an experienced string maker thinks.  Thanks for your reply Daniel.

[ChuckC]

When i build mine i start with the length i want plus 9-10 extra inches per side.  A 60" string would start at around 80" for the longest strands.  I have no issues with short strands.  If you are worried, use three bundles (fewer per bundle) for less short ones.

[ChuckC]

I just built two out of D97 material.  I used two bundles of six strands each.  I added three extra strands of 8,9,10" to each end for padding the nocks.  I added them down from the end a bit, trying to calculate for center of pad to be near end of loop.

I needed no padding for the serving as it fit my nocks very well using smaller guage serving material.

My string is 65.25" long and is used on a 57# Jet ASL.

[Grey Taylor]

"For a 10 strand string bundle that is a 5 inch difference."

One point is that there are probably few of us using a 10 string bundle. The most I use on any bundle is  7 strands per each of 2 bundles.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a 5" difference really mean only 2 1/2" difference on each end since both ends get a taper?

When I make a string without using a string board I cut all the strands to the same length, string length plus 16" (8" per end x 2 ends).
Once I have all the strands cut I go through and cut them shorter by 1/4" increments. Ie, strand one is full length, strand two gets 1/4" cut off each end, strand three gets cut 1/4" shorter than strand two on each end... etc. This gives me a nice taper on each end as I twist up the eye.

Guy

[Greg Owen]

Yes the difference is only 2.5" per loop.  It just seems strange that the jig would be made so ending up with a short strand is possible.  I have also read (I think) that newer sting materials are coming out that are thinner so a 20 strand string (2 - 10 strand bundles) is a real possibility.  Its just my backwards why at looking at things. I really am just trying to get a number from experienced string makers.  What should be the shortest strand used - string length plus ## inches.

[Grey Taylor]

Isn't one of the advantages of modern materials that they are thinner and stronger, thus needing less strands?
I only use B50 and B500 so I don't know a lot about the newer materials.

If a strand is so short that it isn't long enough to be part of the eye and the splice, I'd say that's your guiding point.

Guy

[ChuckC]

I am thinking that no matter the situation, it can be corrected by simply starting with a longer set of strands.

[LBR]

What Grey Taylor and ChuckC said.  My jig is like Daniels--1/4" different (on each end).  I use a lot of BCY-X and 8190, and my preferred strand count on these is 18-20.  Not a problem on my jig, and if it were I'd just move a peg longer on the jig.

The newest material on the market, BCY's Mercury, is the smallest yet.  I'm guessing around 28-30 strands with it.  What I plan to do is just double up on the jig--I only have 10 nails to stagger my strands, so half of them will get two strands vs. one.  Don't see that being a problem with this very small diameter material.

[Greg Owen]

I agree ChuckC, but once the strands are cut you can't lengthen them.  I just don't see why the jigs aren't numbered so that each added strand is longer not shorter. It just seems strange that jigs are marked to start with the longest strand and get shorter instead of the shortest strand and get longer.  Maybe I just answered my question. I guess if you renumbered the jig to start short and go longer then made a low strand count string, you wouldn't have enough length to make a long enough twist after the loops.  Thanks for all the replies.

[LBR]

Greg, you can do just that.  Start with the shortest, measure the strand and mark it accordingly (i.e., if it gives you a 76" strand and you want 8" on each end to work with, mark it 60") then rather than go down the nails when you wind off a bundle, go up and you will be adding 1/4" to each end vs. subtracting.

[ChuckC]

Not sure, but I think you are worrying over something that you don't need to.  I myself start my twisting at 10 - 10.5 inches down the string and only twist up a very short bit before I bend it over to form the loop.  On one bow I have with very tiny tips, I give 7 wraps ( I count one color 7 times) before I bend it around to form the loop.

That isn't much at all in terms of total string length.  Then, the string, at that point, is double thickness ( both bundles are wrapped, then come back together to be doubled two- bundles, until you are done twisting, which goes on for about 7-8 more inches. ( my string, yours may differ, but 6.5" is probably the minimum I would want it to go).

It works... try it....you'll like it !

Besides.... if you start at the bottom of the jig and work up, they ARE longer, not shorter ! Just remark your jig to do it that way if it makes you feel better about it.

[black velvet]

Talk about complicating a simple thing like making a string. Kiss.

[Greg Owen]

Oh, I don't have a jig. I was just seeking to fully understand a simple thing. With your folks help I now do.  I really appreciate all the input.

[V I Archer]

the string jig I have used for decades is a very simple design and all the strands are the same length.  I than manually stagger the strands.  I have plans to build the multi-nail, varying length jig, just haven't done so yet.

[Greg Owen]

Thanks for the reply Chad.  Now I am confused. Your board is one of the 2 that I evaluated at the beginning of this discussion. I found your description of your board on here and I laid it out in Microsoft Excel.  It said your strand count pins were 3/8ths inch apart so that means each successive strand would be 3/8 * 2 or 0.75 inches shorter. So for a 10 strand string, your 10th string should be 6.75 inches shorter than your first.  I will go back and re-lay out the drawing for your board.  I was getting ready to make my own board based on yours when I started this, now I will design my own with all this knowledge. Thanks for all the inputs.

[SteveB]

Like to see it when you are done Greg - always interested in different approaches.

[ChuckC]

Greg...Are you making two ten-strand bundles or two five-strand bundles ?

[LBR]

I didn't measure, just going by looking at how the bundles stagger when cut--if it's not 1/4" it's close.

Either way, just adjust to what works for you.  Big thing is mark your board according to string length, not bow length.