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Author Topic: Best methods for woods?  (Read 644 times)

Offline Captain*Kirk

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Best methods for woods?
« on: March 09, 2017, 12:14:00 PM »
I realize there are as many different techniques for constructing wood arrows as there are opinions on how to do it...but was wondering how the members here that build hundreds of arrows a year (or even those sponsors who build them for profit) go about constructing woodies? I've only build a dozen myself and while they came out decent (though spartan) and shoot well, they looked nothing like some of the gems displayed in the various threads here. Without giving away any trade secrets can some of you pros share some insight about what you feel works best and the sequence of construction you use? (Dip tubes, fletching styles, tools and accessories that make the job easier, etc) There are tons of videos on YouTube demonstrating this, but the practices and techniques vary greatly and sometimes it's hard to tell a pro from a basement hack (like me) in a video...anyone with a camera can claim they're a pro. And some of the "pro" vids are the worst ones, as they rush things, skip sequences and assume the watcher knows everything they are talking about. Any links to old threads archived here would be most helpful.
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Offline Mike Vines

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Offline Mike Vines

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Offline crazynate

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 12:40:00 PM »
I make lots of wood arrows. For me the key to having a set turn out perfect is taking my time. I start with shafts and straighten them. Once I get them straight I will taper the ends. I just use the tool from 3 rivers they sell for 6 bucks. It works great. Then I will take sand paper and sand them just a little bit. Then I wipe them down with lacquer thinner. Once dry I apply my stain if I'm using one. But remember not to stain under where you want your dip. It will bleed through. After letting them dry I dip them in whatever color I want. I know a lot of guys like spray cans but I still prefer dip tubes. After that I do my cresting.once that's done I dip the crown in a water based polyurethane.  Then I dip the rest of the arrow where I stained in bohning sealer. I do 2 coats of that. Once dried I'm ready to fletch. I use full length feathers  and sometimes I do splicing and then I burn them whatever cut I want. After fletching I always add a dab of glue on the front and back of the feather. Then go shoot them.
I

Offline crazynate

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 12:44:00 PM »
Also it's important not to skip any steps and not to rush.i am a stickler for details and don't like having arrows that just turn out ok. I want them perfect. It's part of the challenge to build them and have them turn out awesome. But it's worth it

Offline Captain*Kirk

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 01:41:00 PM »
Mike and crazynate; thank you for your tips and suggestions! Mike, those arrows (especially the swirly ones in your second link) are AMAZING! Can't wait to try out this technique!
A couple questions:
*Am I correct in assuming you stain first, then apply the Parks sealer to the entire shaft prior to capping the arrow?
*Do you cap (spray) each arrow individually? Have you tried dipping as an alternative to spraying (especially in cold weather?)
*How are the fumes/odors of the drying Rustoleum and Testor's in an indoor setting (I realize you spray outdoors) using forced air heating system? My workshop is adjacent to my furnace and whenever I stain or use solvents the furnace pushes the smell throughout the entire house making my wife rather unhappy. Are their water-based alternatives you have used that you can recommend if that issue arises? (I'm going to start out with the Rustoleum-Testors as you recommend)
*Is there any downside to building arrows in quantities of half-dozen or even 3-4? Seems like everyone shoots for building an even dozen, but when I target shoot I usually only shoot 3-4 at a time to avoid "collateral damage", and my hunting  bow quiver only holds 4 max.
*When aligning the nock, is the end grain perpendicular to the nock cutout or parallel when viewed from the nock end?
Thanks a million, guys!

BTW...I'm off to the hardware store tonight to pick up some wooden dowel, Rustoleum and Testors to experiment on before attempting this on my cedar shafting...
Aim small,miss small

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 01:50:00 PM »
To make really good wood arrows, you need to start by buying really good shafts that have straight grain and are closely matched in spine and weight. I hand select where vendors will let me and usually examine at least 300 shafts to find a dozen with the straight grain I'm looking for.  

You need a spine tester and grain scale to check the specs of the shafts you purchased. You don't always get what you ask/pay for. The spine tester and grain scale also enable you to group the shafts according to even closer spine and weight tolerances. You cull, or set aside for a different batch of arrows, those that aren't closely matched in spine and weight.

You also need a sanding jig for consistent/precise tapers.  A pencil sharpener simply is not as consistently accurate in cutting tapers.

You need to know how to orient the grain front to back and top to bottom-- straightest grain toward the nock, any grain runout facing the bottom toward the nock end.  Of course, on really straight grained arrows, there isn't  any grain run out. And, of course, through nock placement, the grain should be oriented perpendicular to the side plate of the bow,almost always it's strongest/stiffest orientation (though some orient it differently to attempt to match spine). Spine should be matched earlier, and those that don't match should be culled or made into a different group of arrows.

None of the above has anything or very little to do with the appearance of the arrow.  An arrow can look like a thousand bucks, but may be constructed improperly and or of inferior material.  

Variable quality (in material selection and build) is the main reason wood arrows sometimes get a bad wrap. They're not all of equal quality, and most folks can't tell the difference.

Most books on trad archery have good chapters on building wood arrows.  Good luck.

Offline Mike Vines

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 02:31:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain*Kirk:
Mike and crazynate; thank you for your tips and suggestions! Mike, those arrows (especially the swirly ones in your second link) are AMAZING! Can't wait to try out this technique!
A couple questions:
*Am I correct in assuming you stain first, then apply the Parks sealer to the entire shaft prior to capping the arrow?
*Do you cap (spray) each arrow individually? Have you tried dipping as an alternative to spraying (especially in cold weather?)
*How are the fumes/odors of the drying Rustoleum and Testor's in an indoor setting (I realize you spray outdoors) using forced air heating system? My workshop is adjacent to my furnace and whenever I stain or use solvents the furnace pushes the smell throughout the entire house making my wife rather unhappy. Are their water-based alternatives you have used that you can recommend if that issue arises? (I'm going to start out with the Rustoleum-Testors as you recommend)
*Is there any downside to building arrows in quantities of half-dozen or even 3-4? Seems like everyone shoots for building an even dozen, but when I target shoot I usually only shoot 3-4 at a time to avoid "collateral damage", and my hunting  bow quiver only holds 4 max.
*When aligning the nock, is the end grain perpendicular to the nock cutout or parallel when viewed from the nock end?
Thanks a million, guys!

BTW...I'm off to the hardware store tonight to pick up some wooden dowel, Rustoleum and Testors to experiment on before attempting this on my cedar shafting...
If you want the answer to all those questions, read the two above supplied links.  That's why I attached them.  All your answers are there.

As for batch size...if I'm building arrows for myself I make 5-7 complete arrows.  Each one will be the exact same weight and spine as the others in the batch. If you can get rid of as many variables, why not?
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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 03:12:00 PM »
I make quite a few arrows for people.  I make them with very tight parameters, I will sand down to get spines down.  I always use stained Watco Oil as a finish, I will let the lighter shafts soak a bit on the main shaft to the point to get a lighter shaft to come up to weight a few grains, I limit point weights to 125s or 145 grains, I will only make arrows for someone after i have had a chance to watch them shoot arrows and correct tunings and shooting variable, then watching some test arrows fly.  I will not make a wood shaft longer than one inch over their draw lengths.   Not bragging, but by doing all of this, I have not missed making the right arrow for a specific bow and person for over 25 years.   The reason I get this kind of cooperation is that besides that they know the arrows will be right, the price is right.  All of my stuff is priced the same, $00.00,  no one has ever ripped me off because what goes around comes around.  One thing that I wish I would have done was buy a lot more more of those 145 grain Ribtecs when I could.  Either hones or file sharpened, the guys are having tremendous success with them.

Offline crazynate

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 03:15:00 PM »
Rustoleum is good paint but it takes a full day to dry. When I use lacquer it dries in just a few hours. But the lacquer does stink really bad. The other down side to rustoleum and other basic enamels is after awhile the paint separates from the oil since it's oil based. Makes it it a pain because you have to thin it and stir it all the time to keep it good with mineral spirits. Also for creating paint the testor model paint is great. I like lacquers to but the testor iS more user friendly. Sometimes lacquer requires the perfect amount of thinning to get it to "flo" right offfthe brush. Also the marbeling you see in the arrows above is super easy. You need ROOM TEMP water to start. It must be room temp. Take little drops of testor paint and drop it in the water. It will sit on top and you can stir it with something thin like a pin. Whatever swirl you get is what will come out on your arrows. I have the DVD on arrow building from a well know arrow builder Jim reubuck. if you would like to borrow it I'll send it to you to watch. But please send it back to me. If that interests you PM me and I'll get it out to you tomorrow. Arrow building is a ton of fun.

Offline Captain*Kirk

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 03:31:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mike Vines:
If you want the answer to all those questions, read the two above supplied links.  That's why I attached them.  All your answers are there.

 
I did, but being at work I had to use the Evelyn Wood method...     :D  
I will be sure to review in much more detail and slower at my leisure with a cold frosty one this evening!

   
Quote
Originally posted by crazynate:
I have the DVD on arrow building from a well know arrow builder Jim reubuck. if you would like to borrow it I'll send it to you to watch. But please send it back to me. If that interests you PM me and I'll get it out to you tomorrow. Arrow building is a ton of fun.
My DVD was acting up last time I tried to watch something...I will have a peek at it over the weekend, might just be a dirty disc. Will let you know ASAP! Thank you!

   
Quote
Originally posted by pavan:
I make quite a few arrows for people.  I make them with very tight parameters, I will sand down to get spines down.  I always use stained Watco Oil as a finish, I will let the lighter shafts soak a bit on the main shaft to the point to get a lighter shaft to come up to weight a few grains, I limit point weights to 125s or 145 grains, I will only make arrows for someone after i have had a chance to watch them shoot arrows and correct tunings and shooting variable, then watching some test arrows fly.  I will not make a wood shaft longer than one inch over their draw lengths.   Not bragging, but by doing all of this, I have not missed making the right arrow for a specific bow and person for over 25 years.   The reason I get this kind of cooperation is that besides that they know the arrows will be right, the price is right.  All of my stuff is priced the same, $00.00,  no one has ever ripped me off because what goes around comes around.
Sage advice. Thank you!
Aim small,miss small

Online Deno

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 04:03:00 PM »
I make very simple nice looking hunting arrows 1/2 dozen at a time.   I tape off and spray the crowns with Krylon.  Dries in about 15 minutes.  I then apply the nocks. I use water based cresting paint and hand spin to crest.  When the cresting is dry, I then use a sponge brush to stain the shafts (no need for a second masking taping) and wipe off the shafts.  I don't wait for the stain to dry. I dip in a pvc tube of water based MinWax clear poly and hang to dry.

Capt Kirk
You can step out the back door to spray the crests so the smell doesn't get into the house vents.  I only use water based so no smell and EZ clean up.

Deno
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Online Deno

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 04:08:00 PM »
BTW
There are some serious arrow makers above and their advice is far better than mine.  I've seen Mike Vine's awesome work. Envious to say the least. I just make my "meat and potato" hunting arrows.

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Online M60gunner

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 04:48:00 PM »
I am also a believer in quality tools. A poorly constructed cresting jig will give you some weird results. Tapering tools that are dull or not precise enough will give you crooked points and nocks.
If you buy shafts from a dealer in say Oregon and live in New Mexico wait a week or two so shafts have time to accumulate to your weather conditions.
Over the years I have seen many posts about the "fastest" way to make arrows. IMO that is poor planning by the individual, plan ahead, two dozen does not take that much longer to do.
You will learn what works for YOU and the answers to your post hopefully gets you there a little easier.

Offline Captain*Kirk

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2017, 09:50:00 PM »
Thank you to all who have responded!
I have a game plan now...we'll have to see if it works, but there's a game plan.
Maybe after a few attempts I'll have some arrows worthy of posting here. Again, thanks!
Aim small,miss small

Offline crazynate

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 06:51:00 AM »
Good luck

Online Deno

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2017, 07:41:00 AM »
C*K    :thumbsup:  

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Offline Pat B

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2017, 09:28:00 AM »
Gabriel Cosgrove has a chapter in TBBI or TBBII about building wood arrows.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
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Offline Captain*Kirk

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 05:34:00 PM »
OK, getting in deep here, folks...
 Here is a photo of the Bohning crester I received thanks to a geneous member here;

 

It needs some sort of mounting board/jig, which I fully intend to cobble up. I will work on that over the weekend and coming week as I get time.

So I ran over to the local Ace Hardware and picked up a few supplies... (see below)...the stain is some old stuff that was lying around. As you can see I grabbed a length of 5/16 dowel rod to experiment with (NOT to make an arrow out of!!!) because they had no 11/32. It fits the cresting jig just fine.

 

I still need to get some additional different stains and some clear water-based poly.

I am also in the process of building a low-buck spine checker. Before you build any arrows you should match them by both weight AND spine, not just assume the vendor sent you all spine matched arrows (even though I ordered them that way) I have a design worked out in my head, just need to put it to practice (again, hopefully this coming weekend/week). I will be sure to lay it all out for anyone interested...
So now I think all I need is my clear water based poly and some sort of dip tube.
More as it happens...and thanks again for the input!
Aim small,miss small

Online Deno

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Re: Best methods for woods?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 02:32:00 PM »
Looks like you're ready there C*K
 PVC makes a great ez to use dip tube.  Seal the bottom cap with pvc glue and add a removable pvc cap.  When your done, pour the poly back into the can.

Waitin' to see these beauties...    :thumbsup:    

Deno
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