Why nobody talking about Idaho elk?

[durp]

like the man said in the begining of the vidio NO HUNTING IN YELLOWSTONE PARK...

this thread is about WHY nobody talks about idaho ELK HUNTING !!!

the answer IN PART to the question is lack of elk to hunt and the reason IN PART for that is wolves.

just stating the facts not bashing dogs!!!

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by durp:
yosemitesam...dont want to upset the apple cart here but you obviously did NOT read what i said...in 1966 the elk population was not at a all time high...what i said was it was just taking off...most serious elk hunters hunted the clear water area and south in those days not up here...im talking about north idaho (panhandle region) not anywhere else...(remember im a life long local res)

yes the human population has grown a lot in the last 50 years ...BUT...we have not lost any habitat because its mostly national forest with a healthy amount of corp timber ground in some area...timber companys continue to clear cut whitch provides brows for elk while on national forest it is outlawed...yes clear cuts are ugly.

truth be told there are more elk close to town now than ever before...not huntable for most people...theres a hurd of 30ish running around out on the rathdrum prairie for all to see and a smaller hurd in my back yard...this is new in the last 10 years or so...yes the wolves have followed.

remember we are talking about why no one is talking about hunting elk in idaho...facts are facts...ive lived it and i will go out on a limb and say you have not...i dont know who you have talked to or read but PLEASE LISTEN to the facts...most of your argument doesnt hold water as far as this area is concerned.

You're talking local and you're the expert there.  I'm talking national.  And I'm no expert.

[Michael Arnette]

Originally posted by YosemiteSam:
Brock - all points taken.  I don't doubt that wolves are having an impact.  But they're supposed to.  I lament that their impact is seen as a problem in the ecosystem rather than a statement of its health.

For 190,000 years, we humans knew this -- world-wide.  A lot of good wisdom has been lost over the last 10,000 years.  But that tale would take many campfires to tell.

Our ecosystem has survived just fine without wooly  mammoths and other extinct species.
...I might add that sport hunting is a necessity when the keystone species such as wolves and grizzly bears do not exist. Hunting will fail to be needed as a management tool with their re-introduction and this is a dangerous thread for sportsman to dangle from!
Don't get me wrong I think wolves are cool as heck but they replace the need for myself as a hunter/manager.

[Brock]

Here is something I posted back in February of last year.....when things like wolves but more importantly technology was discussed and how they impact elk management in Idaho.  

They were looking at adjusting the quotas and seasons accordingly based on the effect of technology to ensure they are not over harvested.  A couple items of note...Rifles have stayed pretty much consistent with a slight still almost flat change. The significant impact to be noted is with Modern Archery and Modern Muzzleloading weapons.

Page 19 shows, how range finders and high-tech scopes "help judge distance for rifle hunters but also encourages less practice for those long range shots...while increasing success rates in some habitats, which can lead to reduced opportunity."

Also stated "Technology has made bows and muzzleloaders shoot faster, farther, and with greater accuracy. Increasing success rates in archery and muzzleloader hunts to nearly equal the rifle harvest success rates in some elk zones of Idaho (Fig.2), raises the question, "What constitutes a 'primitive' weapon?"

So it all has an impact including wolves...but technology may be one of the largest.

A lot of guys that live in these areas...site wolves, technology, out of state hunters and big money "ranch" buyers and the marketers of the hunting industry as all to blame for lower numbers.

Very informative report...can be read here in entirety.
 https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wi  ... n_body.pdf  


That being said...wolves have a significant impact on elk herds that are already hard hunted by humans or impacted by habitat destruction or other outside influencers or even disease.  The wolves make it hard for them to recover as quickly or if at all so states like Idaho then go in and kill a dozen or two wolves from a pack to give the local prey animals a chance to recover.  

It never ends..   http://idfg.idaho.gov/public/docs/wolves/articleHowling.pdf

[medic77]

Let's go.  

[nidaho]

my father is a expert, he is a retiered wildlife biologist from here and he has stated that the introduction of wolves and lack of timber management has been the decline of the elk, moose mule deer and whitetail. he also said that the reintroduction of the wolf was not a option it was shoved down there throats by the feds

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by Michael Arnette:
]Our ecosystem has survived just fine without wooly  mammoths and other extinct species.
...I might add that sport hunting is a necessity when the keystone species such as wolves and grizzly bears do not exist. Hunting will fail to be needed as a management tool with their re-introduction and this is a dangerous thread for sportsman to dangle from!
Don't get me wrong I think wolves are cool as heck but they replace the need for myself as a hunter/manager.

I'd like to address that but, as has been pointed out, I hijacked the thread and it's now way off topic.  Anybody care to continue this as a separate thread?  Maybe under the Legislation and Policy forum?

[kevsuperg]

I'm good

[highlow]

No need to continue as a separate thread Sam. All the posts are germane to the topic, even though there is no empirical evidence pro or con, re: wolves and their effect on elk numbers.
Makes for some interesting reading.

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by highlow:
No need to continue as a separate thread Sam. All the posts are germane to the topic, even though there is no empirical evidence pro or con, re: wolves and their effect on elk numbers.
Makes for some interesting reading.

We all agree that they have an impact.  I'm just the crazy California hippy who thinks that their impact is a problem.

But if nobody is visiting Idaho to hunt elk because of wolves, who am I to disagree?  Maybe it's time for this crazy Californian to head up to see them before they're gone again.

[nidaho]

there is a reason that there are always left over out of state elk tags available. I used to buy two tags every year if they weren't sold out now you can get one any time, they even discount them for us, I have not done it in about 7 years, it was worth it to shoot the first bull I called in and then hunt for a trophy. anymore it would be crazy to do your lucky enough to get the first one let alone a trophy. not that there aren't a few just not many. I actually saw 2 of the largest bulls ive ever seen last season but that was about the only elk I saw hunting everyday the whole season.

[ProAlpine]

Elk will be where hunting pressures are light - whether the hunters be man or wolf.

Posting on the internet and drawing attention to areas that might have lighter hunting pressures than other areas is counter productive to hunting.

I understand the desire for information and help from others, but in all honesty, the best hunting will be where other hunters aren't. So why post it on the internet?

FYI - for all non-residents, we've had a record breaking winter in Idaho and the toll it has taken on big game is going to felt by all.

[Michael Arnette]

I love all the Idaho guys are like "don't come to Idaho it's terrible" ...sounds like a lot Colorado natives I've met lol

The traditional community is small and respectable, it's not the main stream

[jwhitetail]

I have to agree with ProAlpine on this.  I am old enough to have seen hunting/fishing pressure rise, resources become scarce and experiences degraded because of internet forums.  In particular I have watched small stream  fly fishing experiences become highly degraded because of internet conversations... I get the OPs original intentions are good and I mean no disrespect, but these conversations about geography make me nervous.  I never talk about hunting or fishing locations and I very much respect others when they keep it close to the chest... its and old school ethic. Just food for thought.  Thanks!
JW

[YosemiteSam]

A biologist once sent me the spot kill data for an area I was looking to hunt.  If you're not familiar with this, it is the information reported on all tags sent back to them that even includes the direction & distance to nearest landmark of where every deer was killed in that tag area.  While he was a family friend, I received it completely unsolicited -- offered very freely.  It made me question how often that sort of information sharing happens nation-wide.  I definitely plan to be a little more vague on my next tag report.

[ProAlpine]

Idaho tag reports don't go into such detail... just the unit, date, antlered or antlerless from what I remember. Our units are pretty big areas... lots of terrain!

[durp]

glad to see others idahoans step up here...i was starting to think i was the only one that cared weather the truth was told or not.

u 2 jwhitetail !

[J-dog]

I am just planning my first hunt out west and yes to CO. I would like to hunt in an area that has wolves but CO is closer. I just want to hear one in the wild is all or hunt the same land I knwo the are roaming. Not getting into politics too much but my thought is they have their place like all things but on the flip side they have to be properly managed not just let run wild.

Good note on the Canadians who thought the US biologists had lost their crackers wanting to reintroducing the wolves! they tried to talk the US out of it.

[K.S.TRAPPER]

Originally posted by jwhitetail:
[QB] I have to agree with ProAlpine on this.  I am old enough to have seen hunting/fishing pressure rise, resources become scarce and experiences degraded because of internet forums.  In particular I have watched small stream  fly fishing experiences become highly degraded because of internet conversations... I get the OPs original intentions are good and I mean no disrespect, but these conversations about geography make me nervous.  I never talk about hunting or fishing locations and I very much respect others when they keep it close to the chest... its and old school ethic. Just food for thought.  Thanks!


Exactly!!! Well said guys    

Tracy

[YosemiteSam]

There are a couple fishing spots I have no problem telling people about (though I haven't yet online).  Because the odds of anybody else being crazy enough to go that deep off-trail into a steep-sided, poison-oak & rattler-infested canyon just to chase an endless amount of average-sized rainbows are pretty darned slim.  Gettin' in is tough enough.  Gettin' out is where you'll really find out what's what.  It's like a giant stair-master inside a sauna...  Anybody game?  *crickets*

Heck, I haven't even been back for 15 years...