Be wary of bent and "shot out" carbon arrows.

[forestdweller]

Lately I have not been shooting as good as I am used to and have been trying to figure out what's going on with my form while playing around shooting NFAA 300 rounds.

For the heck of it today I pulled out a bareshaft that has not been shot more than 20 or so times and hit the X on my first shot effortlessly while my fletched arrows did not even make it to the 4 ring.

I then backed up to 25 yards and again, my fletched arrows did not go where I was looking yet my bareshaft flew dead straight and went right to where I was looking effortlessly.

After being baffled and trying to figure out what's going on with my form I took a look at one of my carbon arrows that is fletched and it appears to be bent a good amount.

I have been shooting the same 3 arrows for 5 months now and thought that was interesting that you can "wear out" carbon arrows in less than 6 months of shooting them and even put a bend in them.

I figured I'd create this thread in case others are noticing poor accuracy compared to what they are used to shooting.

You might want to take a good hard look at your arrows even if they are carbon ESPECIALLY if you are a heavy shooter like I am.

It might not be your form and might in fact just be your arrows.

Luckily I have only used these 3 out of the dozen that I have so I can just fletch up 3 more and be good to go until I start to notice my accuracy suffer from using them.

I also think that this put's to rest this idea that carbon arrows are either straight or broken. You can most DEFINITELY wear them out and put a permanent bend in them that will throw your accuracy way off.

It was starting to drive me a little bit crazy since some of my bent arrows would go high or left or right or low and I'm not used to that degree of inaccuracy within 20 yards.

Any of you guys experience the same thing?

I have to admit it was kind of funny watching the rear end of my fletched arrows wobble around in a circular pattern and then having my bareshaft fly dead straight into the X.

[Shadowhnter]

Wow, never would have guessed ....what brand and spine did this forestdweller?

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by Shadowhnter:
Wow, never would have guessed ....what brand and spine did this forestdweller?

Carbon Express Heritage .670 spine.

As I said though I shoot A LOT. If I had to guess at least 500 arrows a week unless it's very cold out.

I'd still recommend these arrows but I've learned that carbon arrows are not as durable as a lot of people make them out to be and they can bend just like aluminum's.

I'm sure that if they were aluminum arrows they would of been bent quite a bit by this point as well and the same with wooden arrows.

[8upbowhunter]

I have never heard or seen that before but I have only been shooting trad for 2 years. I have been shooting the same 3 practice arrows almost daily for the past year and just spin checked them and all of mine still spin true. Possibly you got a bad batch of arrows. I will be interested to read what the more experienced have to say as they chime in. I shoot CE Heritage .500 spine and also GT blems .500 spine with another bow.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by 8upbowhunter:
I have never heard or seen that before but I have only been shooting trad for 2 years. I have been shooting the same 3 practice arrows almost daily for the past year and just spin checked them and all of mine still spin true. Possibly you got a bad batch of arrows. I will be interested to read what the more experienced have to say as they chime in.

It's possible but these arrows were flying like dart's when I first got them and only started to deteriorate in accuracy greatly within the past 2 months or so.

I did some research and supposedly it's more common than I thought. Pretty much all carbon arrows have a resin in them that can cause bending/straightness issues and they can weaken in spine the more you shoot them according to what I read.

If we do the math I put at least 3000 shots into each individual arrow over a 5 month period and some complete target misses are involved with that number.

I suppose it's expected for an arrow to lose it's straightness and spine rating after being shot that many times in different weather conditions.

[8upbowhunter]

Originally posted by forestdweller:
 

Originally posted by 8upbowhunter:
I have never heard or seen that before but I have only been shooting trad for 2 years. I have been shooting the same 3 practice arrows almost daily for the past year and just spin checked them and all of mine still spin true. Possibly you got a bad batch of arrows. I will be interested to read what the more experienced have to say as they chime in.

It's possible but these arrows were flying like dart's when I first got them and only started to deteriorate in accuracy greatly within the past 2 months or so.


I did some research and supposedly it's more common than I thought. Pretty much all carbon arrows have a resin in them that can cause bending/straightness issues and they can weaken in spine the more you shoot them according to what I read.

If we do the math I put at least 3000 shots into each individual arrow over a 5 month period and some complete target misses are involved with that number.

I suppose it's expected for an arrow to lose it's straightness and spine rating after being shot that many times in different weather conditions. [/b]

I did a little research after my post and read a thread on AT about this subject. Some say they can bend, some say no way including an engineer so I don't know for sure. I have shot 50-100 arrows/day 4-7 days a week for the past 2 years with pretty much the same 3 arrows for each bow and have not bent any yet but that doesn't mean they can't be bent.

[McDave]

If you don't already do it, you should spin test your carbon shafts before you fletch them.  Occasionally I will find one that is supposed to be .003 tolerance that has quite a wobble in it when it is new.  Maybe not as much as a wood arrow that I would consider "good" but way past .003 tolerance.  I have shafts that I bought for eventual replacements who knows when, which makes it difficult to send them back.  So I just mark them for stumping arrows and usually put a judo on the front.  In the future, as soon as I buy a dozen new shafts, I am going to spin test them so I can send them back if they aren't straight.

Another problem I have, usually with carbon stumping arrows, is that one has a side impact against something and still looks okay, but it is fractured so if you flex it, it will break.  I have shot some that have exploded on being shot, so now I flex them way more often than I used to.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by McDave:
If you don't already do it, you should spin test your carbon shafts before you fletch them.  Occasionally I will find one that is supposed to be .003 tolerance that has quite a wobble in it when it is new.  Maybe not as much as a wood arrow that I would consider "good" but way past .003 tolerance.  I have shafts that I bought for eventual replacements who knows when, which makes it difficult to send them back.  So I just mark them for stumping arrows and usually put a judo on the front.  In the future, as soon as I buy a dozen new shafts, I am going to spin test them so I can send them back if they aren't straight.

Another problem I have, usually with carbon stumping arrows, is that one has a side impact against something and still looks okay, but it is fractured so if you flex it, it will break.  I have shot some that have exploded on being shot, so now I flex them way more often than I used to.

Hey Dave thanks for your insight. I actually did not know much at all about spin testing arrows prior to making this topic post but I actually just finished spinning my 3 arrows that I have been shooting for the past 5 months and they all wobble.

They all wobble to varying degrees but it's definitely very noticeable. The bareshaft that I have has no wobble at all and spins perfectly.

When making this thread I just noticed how they were off by eyeballing them but now I can really see the wobble in them while spinning them.

I'm going to strip the feathers off of them tomorrow and see how much they have weakened since I first fletched them.

It's amazing how much arrow straightness can effect accuracy though even at 20 yards.

It's pretty bad when you are way more confident in your bareshafts than your flethed arrows!

[njloco]

Some of my carbon arrows are real old, 5-6 years of constant shooting, thousands of shots, never had that happen. Most are Gold tip 1535's some are Carbon express which I find are tougher than the Gold tips. Might have been what Mcdave said.

[Whip]

I've not heard of that being a problem with carbon shafts.  Not saying it can't be,  but I'd be surprised. My suspicion would be with the inserts.

You mentioned that not all of your shots have hit the target.  It is relatively easy to bend the insert on glancing blows.  If the insert is bent the tip will wobble when you spin it, yet the shay itself can be perfectly straight.
 
Change out your inserts and see how they spin.

[Charlie Lamb]

I'm with Joe on this one.

[JimB]

That makes more sense,Whip.I have some carbons I've shot for 8-9 years-no bending.Also,points will bend at the shank.I'd test with new,unshot field points first.A spinning jig would show if the problem is in the insert/point area.

[Michael Arnette]

I have noticed this as well, during hunting season I spent test my shafts before hunting.

[crazynate]

I always spintest my carbons. especially when they are new. I bought a dozen axis traditional sand brand new out of the package they wobbled. Every last one of them. I called Easton and they sent me replacements. That was just an issue at the factory. I have carbons I have  shot for 6 years that are staight as new. I have never had an issue. I also shoot hundreds of arrows a week. Any thing is possible but I don't believe the idea the more you shoot carbons the less accurate they become.

[KeganM]

I wonder if lighter spines are just more fragile? My wife has some 800 spine carbons that are easier to break than a common #2 pencil, but my 400+ Beman Bowhunters take some serious abuse, and usually get lost before they fail.

I usually scarry a single stumping arrow. Gets shot more than any other arrow. Feathers usually need replaced a few times but I can never tell any difference between that arrow and the rest. That said, stiffer spines with a heavy tip out of moderate weight bows (40-50#) so they're pretty overbuilt. That might have something to do with it?

[longbow fanatic 1]

Originally posted by Whip:
I've not heard of that being a problem with carbon shafts.  Not saying it can't be,  but I'd be surprised. My suspicion would be with the inserts.

You mentioned that not all of your shots have hit the target.  It is relatively easy to bend the insert on glancing blows.  If the insert is bent the tip will wobble when you spin it, yet the shay itself can be perfectly straight.
 
Change out your inserts and see how they spin.

X2

[Terry Green]

I've never seen such...and I"ve shot Arrow Dynamics a lot as well.  They are either straight or broken.  

Might be the case with some brands, but not Arrow Dynamics.

[Skates]

Never heard of that either, nor have I seen it, and yes, I am a heavy shooter.

[longbow fanatic 1]

I've never heard of that as well. I also shoot a lot of arrows per week. Last year, I shot the same 6 arrows all year with different tip weights for indoor spot targets and outdoor 3-d season. Accuracy of the shafts never changed. I'm not saying what you're experiencing isn't happening. I've just never personally had that experience, nor have I read of this happening.

One thing that comes to my mind is that if your bare shafts are impacting in the bullseye at 20 yards, I would expect that your fletched shaft would likely impact left of the bullseye for a RH shooter. Fletchings slightly stiffen arrows, so when I'm tuning bare shafts, I prefer my bare shaft arrows to impact slightly right of the bullseye (weak), so my fletched shafts are dialed in.

I would suggest calling Carbon Express to see if you can send them the shafts you believe are bent. Their engineers would be able to examine the arrows and determine conclusively if the shafts are bent or wobble is being caused by something else. If there is something wrong with the shafts, I bet they would replace them.

[SuperK]

Back when I shot carbons, the only time I had some that were bent was when I used too much heat to install or remove the inserts.  I was using Gold Tip 3555 blems.