Tuning issue

[Mark Colangelo]

So my buddy got a new Bear Cheyenne and we went to start tuning today. We shoot woodies and knew he would be very close to my arrows. Well, we were right and he was grouping with his fletched arrows and also getting a pretty straight bare shaft flight. However, he had a severe nock high impact no matter what we did. And I know about the nockpoint being too low and kicking off the shelf, so yes, we tried even raising it. No matter what, aggressive nock high. Any thoughts?

[Outwest]

Does he have 2 nock points? Upper and lower. Might give it a try.

[Mark Colangelo]

would that be a form issue? He shoots split but I shoot 3 under. I shot his bow and same result. I grabbed the same arrow and shot my bow and it flew like a dart.

[ChuckC]

Shoot that arrow out of his bow.  It might be a form question.

[McDave]

Originally posted by Recurve Addict:
would that be a form issue? He shoots split but I shoot 3 under. I shot his bow and same result. I grabbed the same arrow and shot my bow and it flew like a dart.

As I understand it, you have shot both bows with the same bare shaft, and have gotten nock high on his bow and not yours.  Has he also shot both bows with the same result?  I also think I understand from your first post that the bare shaft doesn't have any significant nock right or left, indicating the spine is at least in the ballpark?  Although if the nock high is really extreme, that might not mean much.  Would you say it's more than 15*?

It could be a tillering issue.  I have an otherwise high quality bow that had nock high I couldn't control, and solved the problem by reversing the top and bottom limbs.  At the time, I thought that was a novel solution, but I've since read of several other people doing that.  However, that evidently isn't a possibility on your friend's bow.  It is listed as two piece, although in pictures it appears to be one piece.  How does the bow come apart?

if it's brand new and still can be returned, I would consider returning it, once you eliminate form errors for sure.  If it can't be returned, and you can get the nock high below 15*, I would say just live with it and let the feathers correct it.  More than 15*, I would look for some qualified bowyer who can check the tiller and correct it, if possible.

[crazynate]

I had this issue and couldn't fix it untill I recorded myself in slow motion. I noticed just as I release I moved the bow up just a little. You could actually see the arrow  barely having clearance. So raising the nock will not always fix it. Just my opinion

[Jock Whisky]

If all else fails try raising your brace height a bit. I had the same problem, couldn't fix it and a bowyer told me to adjust the brace height up. Problem solved.

[Mark Colangelo]

As I stated, it cannot be form alone because I shot the bow and my bow with the same arrow. Dead nuts perfect with mine, extreme nock high on his. We will certainly be playing with the brace height. Thanks for the suggestions so far!

[crazynate]

Sounds like your forms are perfect so it must be a tiller issue.

[Mark Colangelo]

My first thought when the nock high was not responding to moving the string nocks that it might be a tiller issue. I hope the brace height corrects it, but this is a very severe nock high. Likely upwards of 30*! It is a one piece bow so it would need to be returned to Bear. I shoot a Bear Super Kodiak, and I have it tuned great. It seems unlikely that I have the same brand and relative style recurve tuned, and am somehow having the same extreme form issue my friend is with his bow, right?
Are tiller and brace height the only plausible fixes?

[Floxter]

I have had rare instances where an extreme nock high problem with no left/right problem was indicative of a spine problem; don't know why. I would try a different spined arrow.

[crazynate]

I wouldn't compare your super kodiak to his Cheyenne as far as tuning. Even if they were both the same bow made on the same day results will vary. I think it's a form issue. I doubt Bear made a bow that was that far off tiller.

[Mark Colangelo]

I am not comparing the SK to the Cheyenne. I am comparing the fact that I can shoot and tune the SK but when I shoot his Cheyenne I get the same 30 degree nock high he does. I shoot 3 under to his split. It isnt one guys form. Unless I spontaneously end up with the same form issue he does, only when I shoot his bow, the problem has to be the bow.

[crazynate]

So If you shoot ihis bow nock high it can't possibly be form because  your super kodiak shoots well?  That makes no sense to me but I hope you figure it out .

[Mark Colangelo]

you think its more likely that for some reason that even though neither of us has issues with other bows...we are both having a form issue causing a 30 degree nock high? Rather than something is wrong with either the tune or tiller of the bow itself? I am trying to follow your logic because it is baffling to me. What would be the form issue that causes perfect horizontal nock travel but extreme nock high, and only on certain bows. I use the Super Kodiak as reference because they are both hard rock maple/futurewood 2 piece riser recurves with the same string from the same manufacturer. I don't understand what could be wrong with the bow, or us I guess.

[McDave]

I had a bow once where nock high was uncorrectable when shooting from the shelf, and was able to correct it by putting an arrow rest about a half inch above the shelf. I just did that as an experiment, because I had no desire to shoot from an arrow rest, but t least it demonstrated to me what the problem was.

No one could ever be happy with a bow with a 30* nock high.  My experience is that I can generally get a bow shooting the way I want it in less than a half hour.  If I can't, I'll spend days and weeks worrying about it, and wake up in the middle of the night with another new idea that doesn't work any better than the last idea I had.  Life's too short.

[Mark Colangelo]

Interesting Dave! So did you continue to use the bow? Do you think it was tiller or some other unknown defect? It is my friends bow and it is still driving me nuts!