Advice on bow/bowyer predicament

[DanielB89]

I will differ than most people here, I think he does owe you.  He took a bow that operated perfectly and messed it up.  Age, used, etc doesn't really matter imo.  He agreed to the reduction.  It is now his responsibility.  I believe he AT LEAST owes you what you paid for the used bow off of the price of a new bow.  


In my opinion, you had nothing to do with it, and you should get a bow back out of the deal.

[Jarrod Reno]

Thanks all for the feedback. A lot of good points. I'll send a reply tomorrow, been trying to figure out if I can come up with the difference in cost. The lady isn't super thrilled  

[monterey]

And, warranty is not an issue here.  He agreed to do the job.  Maybe the bowyer should put together an agreement applicable to this kind of issue so that a customer Is making an informed decision.

If I take a pair of pants to the cleaners and they are handed back in two pieces I expect to be compensated based on what they were worth when delivered to the cleaners.

I also think he should be returning the bow to you for your inspection.

[Keith Zimmerman]

I dont understand why its an issue to have a weight reduction done on a used bow.  One arrow shot makes it a used bow.  So that wouldnt qualify for a weight reduction?

Once a used bow gets a weight reduction and complete refinish, its basically a new bow.  I see no issues with getting it done.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Tough situation to be in for sure. I am not going to give advice as it would only be opinion. All I can say is I hope you come to an agreeable outcome.

[KyStickbow]

Originally posted by Rough Run:
The bowyer had an opportunity to rethink the decision to reduce the weight once he got the bow in his shop and could see & inspect it in person.  He undertook the work and assumed the responsibility for that work.  I agree that he should make it right, and that would be covering the amount you paid for the bow, at the least.

X2...I agree that he owes you at least the amount that you paid for the bow.

[McDave]

Originally posted by monterey:


If I take a pair of pants to the cleaners and they are handed back in two pieces I expect to be compensated based on what they were worth when delivered to the cleaners.

The only time something like that ever happened to me, I took a pair of pants to the cleaners and they came back with dry cleaning spots on them.  The cleaners said the spots were already there when I turned the pants in!  Guess they figured the price of a new pair of pants was more than my business was worth.

[Gator1]

A couple things

1.  You spent 1200.00 on a new bow.  It has some issue that the bowyer tells you to stop shooting it and then takes months to replace it "with a different model".  That would have been a red flag to me.  Replace it with the model I paid for

2. The used bow you had him take weight off of I would have had him ship it back to me so I could inspect the damage.

Just my 2 cents.

[Woodpuppy]

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. I don't think he owes you a whole new bow, but perhaps splitting the difference is reasonable. Make the best deal you can and be done with that bowyer. Too many great bowyers out there to keep experiencing mediocrity.

[Roadkill]

Any current bowyers care to offer a comment or two?/. We've heard from the users, now let us hear some ifs, maybes, and I would haves. My customer bows came from a man who would have stood up and either made it acceptable or given cause for why not.  Who ever this bowyer is has some explaining to do on his reasoning---which none of us have heard yet.  If the situation is as described, I would not likely do business with him/her. Please let us know how this comes down thanks

[pdk25]

He accepted the job and the libility, but based on that, if I was a bowyer I would need to have customers sign a waiver before doing the job.  In the current situation, I can't see how the bowyer would need to build him a new bow for nothing, but is likely responsible for discounting a new bow by the amount that was paid for the used bow. Just my opinion.  If you are involved in a car accident, insurance covers a portion of the value of the car you were driving, but not the cost of a new vehicle.

[Kevin Dill]

I would add a thought: The (now damaged) bow was a pre-owned bow. Despite appearances there is no definitive way to know how that bow was treated and used by its previous owners. Bows can have weaknesses inherent in wood lams, and there is no such thing as a perfect glue job or perfect bow. Most likely the reworking exposed a weakness (caused by what or who?) and the bowyer was shocked by what resulted.

If I was a bowyer I very likely would never attempt a weight reduction on a used bow. If I did attempt it I would definitely have the customer sign a waiver releasing me from all liability.

I think it makes good business sense for the bowyer to offer a discount on a new bow. I also don't think this warrants a replacement new bow. Call it bad luck or bad work...it all depends on who is looking at it.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Roadkill, any smart bowyer will not weigh in here.  It would be nice to hear the other side but at the end of the day, they have a business to run and bows to sell.

I would also add, if I were the bowyer, I would talk to the bow owner, work out a suitable solution and move forward knowing to be more cautious in the future. Same scenario for the bow owner.

Hopefully you can both stay professional and gentlemen like.

[Brock]

You bought a used bow....no history of proof if it was dry fired, left in a car in the sun, abused or anything else.  The bowyer agrees to reduce weight and for whatever reason the limb is ruined.

Weight reduction of bow limbs I always thought was a risky enterprise...as one bad move with belt sander and the limb is weakened or if glue is not holding then you expose that void the limb comes apart in your hands.  Guess better to find out that way than when on a hunt at full draw without a weight reduction.

Without knowing all the facts as to the exact issue that happened and the root cause....it is hard to say.

I think him offering a discount on another bow and the amount being pretty close to what you paid is fair.  If he has another bow that meets your needs just sitting there make him an offer with what you are comfortable.

You can either chalk it up to experience and buy another used bow from someone that meets your needs in hopes the cost of both together would be less than a new one.....or just buy a new one from the bowyer.

You say you love his bows and cant think of shooting anything else...  You decision on how you react and handle this could decide what you shoot going forward from this bowyer or having to find another favorite.

I believe non-emotional discussions over the phone or in person are the best way to resolve these issues....speaking in clear terms without yelling or accusations.

In the end...you have to live with the outcome so do what feels right.

I have bought a couple used bows from one of my favorite bowyers......and some have complained about issues in limbs but it was imperfections in the clear glass and never affected the bow or their longevity.  Are typically there in the others too but cant see them in black, brown or green glass like you do with clear.  Just how it goes...

Good luck....stay calm, stay professional, talk it out like men...and then hopefully can work out a solution good for both of you.

Originally posted by Jarrod Reno:
 

While he was working on it something happened and he said he damaged it beyond repair and didn't offer a solution.

Seems like a no brainer to me.  The bowyer didn't say the bow failed, he said   "HE damaged it beyond repair."

If I take my car to the shop for a repair and the mechanic drops it off the hoist, he needs to either repair it, replace it with something of equal value, or pay me the value of the car.

In this case the bowyer should replace the bow he broke with something of equal value.

[mahantango]

This is nuts! I'd love to know who we're talking about here. A weight reduction by a skilled bowyer, especially on a bow he built, is no big deal. Ive had it done to perfection.Bottom line is, he agreed to do it, on a perfectly sound bow, F'd up, any conscientious bowyer would replace it no charge.

[The Whittler]

If the bowyer was building you a bow and messed up would he send you said bow anyway?

[McDave]

Originally posted by The Whittler:
If the bowyer was building you a bow and messed up would he send you said bow anyway?

Good point.  I've had more than one occasion where a bow was taking more time than planned, and I called to find out what was going on, and the bowyer has told me something happened and he was having to remake a limb or riser.  It would be unbelievable to receive a new bow that had been broken while it was being made!  

OTOH, I'm sure any bowyer reading these comments is going to include a waiver in the future stating that he is not responsible for damages done while working on a used bow, unless it is one he made that is still under warranty.

Originally posted by The Whittler:
If the bowyer was building you a bow and messed up would he send you said bow anyway?

That's irrelevant.  

When a bowyer is making someone a new bow, the bow belongs to the bowyer until it is finished and paid for by the customer.


In this case the bowyer broke a bow that was already paid for and already belonged to the customer.

The only way the bowyer would have the right to keep the customers bow is if he paid the customer for it.

Think about an auto shop again.  Lets say you took your car into the shop for an oil change.  The mechanic drained the old oil but forgot to add the new oil.  He proceeds to take the car for a test drive and burns up the engine.

What would you say if he told you, "sorry, I ruined your car beyond repair so you don't have to pay for the oil change...oh, and you can't have your car back and I don't owe you anything."

See how ridiculous that sounds?  Same thing.

[mark Willoughby]