Speed?

[batbow]

Terry made a comment in a post recently about slow arrows and fast game.
What is considered a slow speed arrow for a hunting weight arrow for Deer n Hogs?
Currently running 165fps from a 45 lb with 490 gr. Arrow
168 fps from a 49 lb with 530 gr. Arrow
And 160 fps from a 50 lb with a 660 gr arrow.
All these arrows are set up between 19% to 25% foc.
The weights were not exactly planned, but with length and spine and the goal of excellent flight ended up were they are.

I know from hunting deer with training wheels that even 280 fps will allow a deer on high alert to move enough at 40 yds to screw up a perfect shot. And even at 30 they can duck fast enough to take a heart shot into a high lung shot.

[Hoosierarcher88]

I think the biggest factor in an animal moving out of the way of your shot(ducking) comes from its alertness at the time of the shot. If its on pins and needles at the time of the shot its more likely to duck than if its calm and feeding. I had a big buck duck last season that i had jumped up from a bed. I was shooting a pse full throttle compound that was burning the arrow right at 340 fps. On the other hand ive had deer that ive shot with another compound that was only 200 fps(very low draw weight due to an injury and crazy heavy arrow) that even after being hit only went a few steps then went back to feeding on acorns. It all has to do with the mind set of the animal at the time of the shot.

[Shadowhnter]

The size of deer varies over the U.S. as does the reaction factors. I see you are from Idaho. You should have pretty large bodied deer, so I don't think it's going to be a factor in your in State hunts. The smaller bodied Southern deer are naturally going to be more quick then large heavy bodied deer. As mentioned, if they are not alert, you shouldn't have much problem
 Here in Kansas we have pretty large deer and its not an issue to speak of here.

[Orion]

As Hoosier notes, critters can jump the string and turn a good shot into a bad shot from any distance. Shooting at unalarmed animals and having a quiet bow go a lot farther in reducing the chances for a bad hit than a fast bow.

That being said, I personally consider anything below 160 fps rather slow, between 160 and 180, moving along pretty nicely; between 180 and 200, fast, beyond 200, a pipe dream, unless one is using a really light gpp. I have no compunction about hunting with a slow bow/arrow.

[batbow]

Orion, thanks for the input on speed. Thats pretty much the conclusion i was coming too.
I can get 182 fps with my 50 lb Gharing using a 500 to 520 grain arrow. But I have had a hard time finding a combo that light that will tune for me. Easton axis trads 400 isnt stiff enough at the lenght I need and 340 are just a little too stiff left full length.
So currently shooting the arrow dynamics trad blacks at 660 grains and 160 fps. Tried there trad lights, but they were too weak cut as short as I can go.
I agree with all the other advice/experience all of you provided, thanks!

[Hoosierarcher88]

Batbow what length/spine do you need to be stiff enough? Also saw in your sig that you have a browning nomad stalker 45#. That was my first full size trad bow and even the same weight. Wish i would have kept that one.

[YosemiteSam]

I popped into one of our local shops about a year ago (compound-focused).  I overheard the owner bragging about his 80-yard shot on a deer to a customer...

I don't know what my speed is.  I know it's slow.  But from 0-20 yards, I don't think it's going to matter.

Many years back, I was hunting an area along I35.  I worked my way to the end, got to a pond, took a long shot across the pond at a badger dig. Then worked my way back.  One day a rather large buck came from under the interstate and stopped right at that badger dig and stood there looking away from me.  I knew that shot and took it. The Wasp broadhead, version one 3 blade, hit just right.  The buck took two jumps and went down, heart shot. I found that one blade broke off in the entrance side hide, one broke off with rib contact, and about half of the third went through the heart.  Where the remnants of the third blade went is a mystery.  About ten years back, hunting with a 90 pound longbow and 660 grain wood arrows, I found an oats round bale that was left behind on state land.  When I rounded the corner I took a long shot at that oats bale.  It was point on out of that rather speedy setup. One day a doe was feeding on it. I knew that shot and took it.  At release the doe took a couple of casual steps while feeding.  The Hill broadhead, cut a swath of hair out of her tail.  From then on I have reserved my point on accuracy for small game only. I have never lost a body hit deer with taking long shots, but a lot can go wrong and the chances that a deer will remain in place while the arrow is in flight is always a gamble, even if they are staring at the sun or feeding.

[batbow]

Pavan, I agree with you completely!
I once took a long shot with a compound at a really nice mulie. It was feeding away from me unalarmed. I tried for half an hr to belly crawl up a shallow ravine to close the distance, but it was moving almost as fast as I could belly crawl. It was about to dissapear where I knew I would no longer have a chance, and I knew I could easily make the 60 yd shot. So I took the shot.
It took one step on release of my arrow, and half of another by the time the arrow got there it went right behind its butt. He looked around, at the arrow bouncing across the ground and wandered off.
After that I would no longer will take a shot past 30yds with a compound.
I now do not own a compound! Love the simplicity of trad bows!

[batbow]

Hoosier
Those brownings are nice! Bought it for bowfishing, liked it so well I bought another for fun shootin around the property. They shoot really well!
trying to use 400 spine I want to stay at least 29 inches, and out of the Gharing with a fast flight string thats not stiff enough.
Tried the 340 easton axis at full lenght and they are just a little too stiff even with 300 grains on the front.
Those easton Axis arrows dont seem to respond much to point weight, seems the only way I can really get them right is by shortening them 1/4 in at a time. Then I can fine tune a tiny bit with point weight.
Going to stick with the AD trads. They are heavier than I wanted and a little slower than I hoped, but they shoot real well and they ought to penetrate like crazy at that weight(660)

[Hoosierarcher88]

Im going to experiment some with the victory rip shafts. They are lighter gpi so i can go with a heavier point weight in a stiffer spine and keep my total weight about the same while having higher foc. Right now if im thinking correctly my arrows are right around 720-730 grains using 300 grain poibts, my own insert/footing combo and easton axis trads

[last arrow]

I think the speeds you show for the weight of arrows you have (11 to 12 gpp)is pretty typical.  They would all make fine hunting setups for deer and shots of under 30 yards. If you want higher speed, all the bows will give it to you with a lighter arrow, its a matter of what is most important to you.  For deer hunting I try to keep arrow weight above 500 grains regardless of bow weight.

i cannot know how it goes for everyone, but of the some of the trad shooters around here, their attempts and plans to shoot very heavy arrows goes awry when their set ups require absolute maximum draws to get good arrow flight, and then when they hunt they end up with drastically shorter draws in actual hunting shots, which gives them a much lower trajectory and loggy arrow flight.    Right handed, I tend to over draw.My net bop broad heads help me to control that.  Left handed in odd positions, I tend to short draw, again my net bopper suppose to help me control that, but sometimes, i simply cannot tag the head with my index finger without completely throwing my aim off.  What I need is a setup where the bow shoots more efficient at a shorter draw and less efficient at a longer draw and an arrow that does not drastically change speed with the different energy levels.  Some would say a heavy arrow that is not over spined would retain more energy.  Others would say a light arrow because of its higher speed and less arc would retain more of its accuracy.

[Autumn Sunrise]

I'm too afraid to chrono my arrows.  I'm fearful that I will get it in my head that my setups are inadequate because I'm not generating "X"fps.  If my über-slow arrows miss, great, that means I didn't wound anything.  As a short draw, light poundage person, my arrows are on the heavier side as penetration is a real concern for me.  I won't shoot at game over 20 yds, and 15 yds better yet.  If a deer has me pegged, I won't shoot. Chances are it'll duck the arrow completely or I'll have to deal with a high wound/spine shot. No thanks.

[batbow]

Autumn sunrise
I know what you mean! The projectiles wether arrows or bullets always seem to be going slower than we expect/hope.
And it can mess with you. But if you just ignore it and go shoot it suddenly becomes irrelevant how fast they are moving. Your brain figures it out n it's all good.

[D. Key]

A whitetail deer (and most hogs) can react to the string sound far faster than any bow out there (do the math, it will amaze you).  They can drop an entire body depth in 1/3 of a second.  That being said, you just have to compensate for the animal's reaction to the shot.  

Typically, you try and shoot when the animal is calm and either broadside or slightly quartering away.  Their first reaction is to drop their body, in order to load the leg muscles and then bolt away.  Therefore, you must focus on a spot very low in the kill zone and allow the animal to intersect into the correct path of the arrow.

Southeast Texas deer are very wary animals and at 10-12 yds. I typically focus just below the chest line.  Most of my bows are very similar in performance to yours and the deer I have killed have reacted before the arrow ever got to it's intended spot.

Hope this helps but I am sure you already knew it.

I prefer to shoot deer 18 to 30 yards.  When I am really close, ground only hunter, they are much more aware that something is amiss in their woods. A couple of years ago we all checked bows for speed. I gave a string follow Big 5 to a friend that did not fit my draw and arrow supply, a perfect fit considering his longer draw.  His was the slowest bow in the group, it was also the quietest.  At the time he had taken five shots and killed five deer with that bow.  I do not shoot at deer that are looking my way, I tried the shoot under them expecting the leg bend, what I got was either a shot under the chest or a deer on the move before the arrow got to it.  A deer that is on a brisk walk and under twenty yards is a much easier target for me, I think when they are moving they are less likely to pick up my movement.

[JusAGuy]

For me, one of the allures of the more traditional style of archery equipment is my mental state when i'm shooting my bow or bow hunting.

I free myself from the more technical/quantitative aspects of the equipment. I do not allow myself to be caught up with the extra "fun" of maximizing velocity, efficiency of limb shapes and materials, retained energy, etc.

This allows me to more fully enjoy the experience of shooting/hunting strictly for what it is.

As such, I am OK with limiting my range of target acquisition to within 25yds. I don't mind that limitation at all - i consider it part of the experience.

[woodchucker]

Speed is fine... Accuracy, is final

[dbd870]

Never cared enough to run one across the chronograph.