How common are bow failures?

[Motty]

I live in Australia and have had cracks in 3 custom bows from the USA. One was replaced by the bowyer who refused any offer to help pay postage, a nice bloke. The other 2 by the same bowyer was advised to super glue the risers up and that sh@t happens. No refund. $100 postage each way has me owning metal riser ilf.
Motty

[acedoc]

Originally posted by Motty:
I live in Australia and have had cracks in 3 custom bows from the USA. One was replaced by the bowyer who refused any offer to help pay postage, a nice bloke. The other 2 by the same bowyer was advised to super glue the risers up and that sh@t happens. No refund. $100 postage each way has me owning metal riser ilf.
Motty

Exactly!

[Tedd]

They break pretty often. Exotic wood risers can crack. It's not a perfect material. A really nice looking cocobola Morrison I had split at the shelf/window. He made a new one imediatley. Years ago I got a custom Bears Paw from Montana that broke the limp tip off on the first shot. The bowyer said send it back. Then he said it never arrived and wouldn't answer the phone. Though my check to pay in full got there ok. I never got the money or the bow back.
I caused a bear to break one time. I sanded the riser a little and blam! It broke exactly where I sanded it! It split my head open.  I had a new 59 remake that had a tiny splinter on the edge of the maple lam. Had to send it back for replacement. That was a really nice one too.
And a custom Black Widow cracked at the site window, but I kept shooting it until a new one arrived. It probably would have lasted forever with the crack in it. They replaced it free of charge with extra laminations in the riser. I  broke a few self bows. It's a good idea to wear a football helmet for the first few shots.  And when  people tell you that you shouldn't put FF on pre FF bows. I witness someone ruin a 66 kodiak.  BTW... I have always used 10-11-12 GPP, never used skinny strings. I can't recall ever having a limb break.
Tedd

[Gooserbat]

I had a limb blow up at the shot.  I honestly think the arrow nock failed and caused what was essentially a dryfires.  I also had a piece of cocobolo check in a riser.  Bowyer fixed it.

[FlintNSteel]

In almost 50 years and too many custom and production bows to mention, I've had two failures.  Both top limbs. One Widow back in the early 80's that literally exploded.  One RER a few years ago.  Both were promptly replaced no questions asked.

I don't think it's that common, but when it does happen, you're very glad to have a bowyer that backs up his work and takes care of it.

[mwosborn]

I think the "percentage" of failures is small - I have had several different types of  bows over the years and the only failure I had was my fault.  I had a strung bear grizzly in a hot garage and the top limb let go.

That is not counting the self bow failures I have had during building - several of those!    

[AndreasLundin]

Thank you for your replies.

It seems to me that these failures are more common than I thought. Surely these failures should be able to prevented with the right choice of wood, enough reinforcing of carbon or similar material.

I am disheartened by my failure and no matter how the bowyer will look after my case I will loose time and money. Not to speak of the loss of confidence.

I hope that this will be sorted out swiftly so I can back on a positive streak in my traditional path.

[Tim Finley]

Cracks through the limb bolt holes are usually caused by moisture . The cracks may keep going and eventually work their way up the limb Ive seen cracks a foot long (not safe) . Overlaying is the only way to stop the crack from getting bigger  and that may not even do it . Using a bushing in the bolt holes stops the problem to start with  . The limb holes are usually coated with finish but as the handle and limbs bend the threads on the bolt wear off the finish and then moisture gets in and swells the wood and causes the crack, so if the bowyer uses a metal bushing epoxied into the bolt hole and thoroughly coats the pin hole those crack don't appear.

[acedoc]

Originally posted by AndreasLundin:
Thank you for your replies.

It seems to me that these failures are more common than I thought. Surely these failures should be able to prevented with the right choice of wood, enough reinforcing of carbon or similar material.

I am disheartened by my failure and no matter how the bowyer will look after my case I will loose time and money. Not to speak of the loss of confidence.

I hope that this will be sorted out swiftly so I can back on a positive streak in my traditional path.

I have been dealing with overseas vendors for almost all my hobbies - I had money lying with a custom rod maker for over 4 months without a reply. When I started sending several emails a day to the firms address I was directed to another gentleman who got my stuff out in the mail after around 6 months of wait. Even then I got the impression that the original owner was in some doldrums due to a hurricane and still came through. My bowyer also has been patient with a noob like me who is apt to change his mind.
Give the guy a chance, you never know what is his end of the story. We have enough negativity in the world today, one of the most important reasons we all went trad is nostalgia for the good old days!

[Gehrke145]

I typically don't post on these, but with the limited amount of info, It kinda sounds like you're looking for problems after getting a different limb core.  I'm not sure if that was his mix up, or an issue that was overlooked with an online order, or mail in?  If it was done over the phone I'd say thats more on him.

To me a crack is a crack not a light coloration in a fine line under the finish.  Its hard to point fingers, with all the crazy things I've seen people do to bows over the years .  Look on the other page, a guy basically set his widow on fire.......

Regardless, I would say a refund shouldn't happen unless he did a switch on the core, after a phone conversation at the time of the order.  It makes it a little more complicated, that you shot it for as long as you did.

After all that, I understand buying something and not being happy.

[Sixby]

Double locate pins and oversize bolt hole that is well sealed eliminate cracking of glass. The cracks are usually caused by the stress when the bow is drawn . Even though we may not detect any flex its there. If we over size the bolt holes the glass is not stressed. It can be done by carefully filing the back and front of the bolt hole , not the sides , or by simply going one size up with the original drill hole. I also overlay both the top and bottom of the limb butts. My theory in bow building is to eliminate comebacks and dissatisfied customers.
Although this is more work initially it eliminates a lot of unhappy people and a lot of extra work in the long run. There are other things such as material selection and the use of phenolic I beams or super strong wood ibeams such as ironwood or purpleheart ect. These eliminate the majority of riser failures.
God bless, Steve

[DesertDude]

Bow Failures happen from time to time. Been around this stuff along time. I have worked in the archery business  for years and and have seen many bow failures.   It's all about how the boyer backs/warranties their products. some are great and others are not.....

[Marksman Quivers]

Originally posted by Sixby:
 My theory in bow building is to eliminate comebacks and dissatisfied customers.
Although this is more work initially it eliminates a lot of unhappy people and a lot of extra work in the long run. There are other things such as material selection and the use of phenolic I beams or super strong wood ibeams such as ironwood or purpleheart ect. These eliminate the majority of riser failures.
God bless, Steve

A good business theory to have.
As others have said it's not the bow failing, these things happen, it's how your treated from then on that makes the differance. This highlights the really good companies to deal with.
Mark

[katman]

Originally posted by mark Willoughby:
What bowyer ? Just curious

PM sent

[Dave Lay]

I've had one from a well known Bowyer break at the throat of the riser, but they did a great job of replacement . I've been shooting widows for past 20 years with no problems

[mnbwhtr]

In 53 years I've had several break on me. Black Widow, Bear t/d mag handle, Zebra longbow. Bighorn longbow, wolverine longbow, 2 sets of RER limbs for Bear t/d, hopefully no more.

[Steve Jr]

Wozzer Randy that's a lot !!! I have only had one limb break they were black glass and it was a touch over a hundred degrees that day. I shouldn't have been shooting it!!

Steve Jr