Longbow "forgiveness" explanation?

[killinstuff]

Just one of those old mythes that guys have read or heard and keep repeating.  How straight limbs are don't matter much in how a guy shoots his bow better than another. There are many mythes that just die hard. Like the myth that I find odd "longbows cast a heavy arrow well".  ?????? To me that says "my bow is slow but I'll shoot heavier arrows so it's not all that bad".

[fnshtr]

What McDave, Orion and Graps said.

[Red Beastmaster]

If you torque, have inconsistent anchor, and a bad release, a longbow is not going to "forgive" you anymore than a recurve will. Bad form is bad form.

 I always thought the whole forgiveness thing was a bunch of hooey.

[Twostrings2]

I know that my Bear Montana does not forgive me.
It grants me total and unconditional absolution for sloppy, open stances, floating anchors and not thinking about my back muscles.

I think it is more in the design of the individual  bow, and the tendencies of the individual shooter. That's why half the responses here say recurves are more forgiving, and half say longbows! I pretty much only hunt with my longbow because I prefer the way it shoots and feels. I shoot my recurve at 3D shoots because I can play more. Most of the time my scores are neck and neck with each other. It does make me mad when I do beat my longbow score with the recurve, just because of all the time I put into shooting the longbow!!!

As far as which one is more forgiving, I can't tell much difference in the longbows and recurve (I only own one recurve) that I have.

Bisch

Originally posted by Graps:
OK , this one time I was talking with Byron Ferguson and he explained to me that you can't shoot a longbow the same way you shoot a recurve .
But you can shoot a recurve the same way that you shoot a longbow .
He also said that the longbow is touching the string in only two points , thus having less influence on the string .
Recurve limbs can be pulled out of alignment during the draw and there will be a side to side movement in the limb tips when you release .
Don't know if that explains it enough , but that's what Mr. Ferguson told me .
It kinda makes sense .

Absolutely!
I spent 8 years of my trad experience shooting Browning and Bear recurves.  Did okay!  However, later on in my hunting career I started shooting a  narrow/thick limbed (Hill style)longbow and when faced with a 20 yard target, I did well with either bow...the edge given to the longbow.  When hunting with the longbow on the ground and in the trees, having to shoot at odd angles and uncomfortable positions the recurve lost the battle.  

If you are standing on the line, comfortable, with time on your side, the 'curve can be a good friend but if you need to rely on instinct in an unpredictable and changing scenerio, with limited windows of opportunity, my experience gives the edge to the straight limbed longbow.

One of the most difficult things to develop is shot timing, when hunting.  Okay, maybe not for the guy sitting in a blind by a feeder, but for the ground stalker and small game hunter.  It is important to decide what kind of shot you want to be able to take.  Not all recurves are finicky and slow on the point, but many ASLs are not at all finicky and very fast handling.   For the Hill shooter that has followed John Schulz and Hill, they know when the bow gave them some working room that many recurves cannot provide.  Those that are more in the static straight up shooting style will either not understand it or simply deny it.   The stiffer static style is much easier and quicker to learn, but it comes with limitations.  Larger rivered hybrid bows are much closer to recurves than longbows for handling, aiming and general use.  A recurve grip will straighten out the bow arm and bow wrist a little to comply with the grip, while the straight griped longbow likes to have a bit of flex in the bow arm.   I have shot birds, clay pigeons and coins out of the air with both, the differences are not all that distinct for benefits, but the simple ASL does win in the fast handling race most of the time.

[trubltrubl]

Orion hit the nail on the head. Its all science. Generally longbows limbs are narrower and thicker which makes them less effected by variables in release.Its that simple. And the longer the bow the smoother the release as well.

Now as far as accuracy with perfect form on both..I would say the recurve generally is flatter shooting making it easier to shoot variable distances.

Bow design of both recurve and longbows vary so much now that the answer is not simple as a steadfast rule.
I have noticed in my own experience that longbows seem to be more accurate for me in cold weather where I have plucked the string or had poor form due to being cold. I hunt with both and success is pretty much the same. Generally if you shoot well..both work !!!!

[J. Holden]

I recently ordered a bow from what I believe to be a good bowyer with a good knowledge of building bows.

I asked this question as I was trying to decide between a recurve or longbow.

His reply was guarded as he didn't want to tarnish any other bowyers reputation.  But what he said makes sense to this simple mind.  He said if the bowyer does his job and builds a bow the way it should be then it doesn't matter if it's a longbow or recurve.  If it's not shooting well it's the shooter.

Pretty simple but makes sense.

-Jeremy

[trasher]

2x

Well , I think it depends on the geometrie of the bow, whether recurve, longbow or hybrid!

[Orion]

Can't hardly disagree that shooting accuracy/shooting a bow well rests with the shooter, but this thread is about a bow's forgiving properties, i.e., characteristics that enable the bow to partially accommodate and ameliorate some shooting/form errors or just make the bow more comfortable to shoot..

When I try to shoot my Groves recurve as fast I always can shoot my longbows, it is a guessing game where the arrow will end up.  My normal right hand tempo with a longbow is a smooth one second. If I try to shoot 6 or 8 arrows out of the Groves that fast the arrows will spray as big as a big watermelon at 20 yards.  There is a difference.  Although, that difference is more noticeable from a Hill style shooter's perspective than from a static style shooter.

[RC]

I believe forgiveness in a bow comes from 3 things. 1 mass weight in riser...2 bow length...3 how forward the grip is. A bow with all this will be a shooter and forgiving.  I also believe that if you are a longbowman like say shooting Hill style bows you will only have the advantage of length and your form will be spot on if you are gonna shoot as accurate as you would with a recurve thats much shorter with a heavy riser.
  In short for me I don`t expect dime hitting accuracy at 20 yards with a long hold. I shoot longbows because I seem to be able to get on target quick and shoot with a faster hold allowing me to shoot a few more pounds of bow weight with a bad neck and shoulder. I`m no 3d man and the advantages of a quick pointing longbow with a fast style of shooting make them forgiving enough for me to crack ribs in the woods. RC

[mwosborn]

For me I think it is in the grip.  A grip that naturally fits into my hand and as I draw it just doesn't torque is "forgiving".  Makes no difference if it is a longbow or recurve.  Some bow grips I just do not shoot well.  And of course this can vary from person to person - thus a bow that is not forgiving to me, may be to someone else.

[NW Jamie]

Originally posted by skychief:
When a release is botched (torqued string, plucking, creeping, etc, etc), a recurve seems to amplify the mistake, whereas a longbow puts the arrow closer to the point of aim.  Generally speaking.

Why is this?

Best regards, Skychief

Skychief, great post with a lot of good info posted in the answers. For me, started with a hill style longbow then went to recurves (Bear Kodiak Hunter and Assenheimer) and found the recurves consistently out preformed, for me, longbows. I have a 56" Shrew that shoots well, yet I just never seem to get the same consistency with it. My recurves are both heavier, 55# and 57# at my draw length, than I now can now comfortably pull. So I am shooting the 53# shrew all the time now and no matter how much time I spend with it I still miss the steadiness of recurves. Just my view and it is different for all. Great post thanks.

[Terry Green]

I've never notices a difference....I shoot both longbows and recurves with the same accuracy.  Never have understood that statement...but maybe some folks for lends itself to one style of bow over another.

I do like hunting with longbows better though...I feel they are not as fragile and I don't have to worry and keeping up with a stringer    

Originally posted by pavan:
The forgiveness of a longbow will show up when taking fast shots in varied circumstances.  If your shooting form is more a straight draw, straight armed, slower, static style, a recurve would be a better bow for you.

yep...I agree with this.

[Crooked Stic]

I would agree with Terry provided the grips are of the same style. I shape my grips the same regaurdless longbow or curve. Can be as accurate with one as the other.

[Learner]

Originally posted by skychief:
When a release is botched (torqued string, plucking, creeping, etc, etc), a recurve seems to amplify the mistake, whereas a longbow puts the arrow closer to the point of aim.  Generally speaking.

Why is this?

Best regards, Skychief

I haven't been shooting trad long enough (even after many thousands of shots) to say that I can absolutely vouch for the validity of this (I've been shooting only a little over a year now).

For the first six months I shot my two recurves.  Towards the last couple of months of last year I already knew that I wanted to shoot Hill style, so I started to transition over my style on the recurves.  But since my Hill ASL arrived in January, I've only been shooting longbow.

I've seen it stated several times that such and such longbow "shoots where you aim it".  That may be true, but I would say that there' a big "IF" that needs to qualify that statement.  The "IF" has to do with whether you are shooting (assuming a straight grip longbow) with the appropriate "longbow" technique.  But if one tries to shoot it like a medium or high wrist grip recurve, then I would say that it is not more forgiving.

I do agree with the statement that "you can shoot a recurve like a longbow, but you cannot shoot a longbow like a recurve".

Although there are always exceptions (as there are some exceptional individuals in this world), I would say that in general, one cannot shoot recurve well, and then just "try" a longbow to see if it is more forgiving.

Because before it starts "forgiving" you, you most likely will have to go through a considerably long phase of getting acquainted, and getting slapped in the face (figuratively speaking)!

Just my two cents.

Best wishes,
Frank

[Stumpkiller]

I would go with longer bows are more forgiving than shorter ones.

I am currently trying to talk some sense into a 56" Browing Wasp and I have to work carefully at every release.