B-50 vs. FF is there a best of both worlds?

[ChiefStingingArrow]

There is a lot of debate over B-50 vs. Fastflight strings. both have positives and negatives depending on the bow and style of shooting. etc.

My Question is is there a string material that is in the middle of  both styles?

For example is there a string that has less stretch than B-50 but not so rigid as FF?

Is there a best of both worlds?

[ZaneD]

For me the best of both worlds is a D-97 or D-10 string with Dacron padded loops. This gives you the performance benefits of a FF string, but with some of the quietness and dull sound of a Dacron string. Of course this still only works with FF compatible bows.

[JRY309]

I don't think you will find the best of both worlds because there are so many different low stretch string materials out there.For me I not a fan of dacron on any of my bows,I don't even use B50 to tie on my string silencers.Just to weak to tie on them tight.My personal opinion I like and  prefer BCY-X,but others will have a different opinion?

[Stumpkiller]

Isn't that what BCY B-55 was supposed to accomplish?

My B-50 endless-loop world is still doing just fine.  ;-)


{Though I do have FF on my Dream Catcher}

[Danny Rowan]

Personally I see not problem with B55. All my Schafers have B55 strings as they were not made for ff, although I know a bunch of people that use ff on theirs. I have one bow that is ff compatible and it has ff on it, cannot remember the brand but see no difference shooting it or one of my Schafers.

[ron w]

I have been mixing materials......I use D-97 with 3-4 strands of B-50 in each bundle. I other words instead of padding the loops I pad the whole string. I have also done it with BCY-452. A bowyer told me he did that on his bows and liked the results, so I tried it. Seems to work just fine and my nocks fit perfect. With wool puffs most bows are almost silent with a heavy arrow.

[nineworlds9]

You might like a string made from Ultracam or 450+.

As was stated before, Dacron padded loops can be pleasant.  Bottom line, if you're using B50 on a modern r/d longbow or hipo recurve design it's kinda shooting yourself in the foot.

[Pine]

I'm a big fan of B55.

[ChiefStingingArrow]

Thanks for the replies guys!

[Steelhead]

I have been liking D-10 as well.Been using it a lot.I have shot a lot of B-50 and B-55 and all kinds of FF strings over the years.

Their is a softness to the shot IMO with D-10 that I like.They are padded with B-50 in the loops.Eight and 10 strand and wool puffs.Very happy with it.Soft shooting,quiet and pleasant bow manners.

[LBR]

There currently no "in-between" materials.  B-55 is still polyester ("dacron"), just a higher grade so it has a little less stretch and creep.

Currently we have 3 basic types of string materials (not counting exceptions like silk, linen, sinew, stinging nettle, etc.).

1.  Polyester - B-55 or B-50

2.  High Modulus Polyethylene (HMPE)  Dyneema and Spectra are two well known brands of HMPE, or UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene).  Dynaflight '97, 8125, Mercury, etc.

3.  HMPE and LCP (Liquid Crystal Polymer) blends.  Well known LCP brands are Vectran and Kevlar.  450+, 452X, Trophy, BCY-X

You can add strands of dacron to a "Fast Flight" string, but be sure to use enough strands of the stronger material to carry the load.  The dacron is just a built in silencer that adds weight and helps dampen vibration.  It's not doing much of anything as far as carrying the load due to it stretching so much more.

How much benefit you notice with the HMPE or HMPE/LCP blends depends on a few variables...the bow, your skill/sensitivity level, how well the string is made, etc.  The big difference is durability and consistency, especially in hot weather.

A little bit of string material trivia.  The difference in Dynaflight '97 (SK75 Dyneema) and Dynaflight 10 (SK78 Dyneema) is tiny...to the point you can mix the two in the same string with no ill effects.  I don't know of any other two string materials you can do this with.  The founders of BCY (Ray Browne and Bob Destin) invented the original Fast Flight material when they worked for Brownell.  The original Fast Flight material is only available through BCY, but it's called 652 Spectra because Brownell owns the name "Fast Flight".  Brownell can't get the original material so they made a copy from a diffrerent material and call it "Fast Flight Plus".  Brownell cannot produce a material similar to BCY-X, because BCY-X is patented.  Materials like BCY's 8190 and Brownell's Fury will no longer be available once the current supply of SK90 Dyneema runs out.  The manufacturer of Dyneema, DSM, discontinued it in favor of SK99 Dyneema.  BCY-X is being re-formulated to incorporate SK99 Dyneema and will be introduced to the public at the 2018 ATA show.  Despite rumors and certain "test" results, none of the HMPE materials have any degree of elasticity.  The claim that this or that HMPE material has a higher percentage of stretch is comparable to saying a hair and a half weighs 50% more than a hair.  Technically true, but still so tiny a difference that it's insignificant.  The difference is creep, which is elongation that happens under a constant load over a prolonged period of time...it doesn't happen at the shot.

I love this stuff...if you have questions about strings or string materials, feel free to contact me.

Chad

[ChiefStingingArrow]

Thanks for the reply Chad. that puts it into perspective!

[Jasper2]

Spoken like a legitimate "string nerd".   :D  Take care Chad.... You're the man.

[Mike Mecredy]

I read some accounts that state B-50 or B-55 actually works better on some bows.  But I've shot D/R, hybrids, Recurves, Hill styled, selfbows, all fiberglass bows... none of them improved, in any way at all, when I took off a low stretch string and put on a Dacron string.


*** added later, before I get myself in trouble***

Or course before using anything but Dacron, on the old bows, without reinforced tips, I reinforce the tips first, or suffer through Dacron with them.

[Stumpkiller]

Originally posted by Mike Mecredy:
... none of them improved, in any way at all, when I tk off a low stretch string and put on a Dacron string.

I would not presume to disagree.  But I figure I'll stick with the material and winding that a bow was designed to use.  Dacron has shock absorbing properties Dynema and other zero-stretch strings do not.  And the tips are thin on some of the old girls.

[Tradcat]

D97 all the way

[LBR]

Mike, same here.  The only bows I'll put polyester ("dacron") on are old bows that weren't built for anything else, and I almost never shoot those.  I even have reinforced tips on my selfbows.  B-55 is the better choice--a little higher grade of polyester--but it's still a pain.

Dynaflight '97 is still a great material.  Been around for over 20 years, still going strong.  It's one of the most economical materials you can get in the "FF" family other than the original Fast Flight formula (652 Spectra).  Even though there's been several upgrades to Dyneema in the past two decades...from SK75 (Dynaflight '97) to SK78 (Dynaflight 10) to SK90 (8190) and now SK99 (Mercury), even from SK75 to SK99 it's not a big difference, pending the string is built correctly.  The higher the grade the stronger and more durable, but it's not an earth-shattering difference.  I'm always using the newer stuff, but I've won more tournaments and killed more critters with Dynaflight '97 than anything else...mainly because I shot it for 15 years or so.

Chad, how do you judge whether a bow can handle a padded BCY string like you make?   As examples, a Wing Slimline, Groves Spitfire or a longbow with plenty of tip mass.  All were made when the only string was B50.  I gave a Wards Montgomery Pearson that I completely changed, retillered and reduced the paddle limbs changed the grip, and took off all of the sharp edges.  It has no tip support.  He needed a string, I had one that fit it, a padded modern string.  He claims it is the best bow he has ever had and four years down the road, I expected it to show damaged somewhere somehow.  Nothing, it looks to be in perfect shape, the finish I put on it is still in perfect shape even, this bow is nearly 50 years old.

[LBR]

The only safe bet is if the bow was made for it.  It's not just tip reinforcement that is needed, but the string angle has to be cut at the proper angle.

I know some people beat the odds.  If you have a short draw length, shoot really heavy arrows, really pad the loops, etc. you might get away with shooting a high performance material on any bow...or you might not.  Kinda' like hunting from a stand with no safety harness.  You might get away with it for a long time...but chances are it's going to bite you in the butt sooner or later.

[hvyhitter]

What RonW said. I want quiet over fps and dacron always seems to be the quietest. I shoot heavy bows with heavy arrows and never noticed any real improvement with FF strings so Ive gone to twisting my own out of both............YMMV