WOULD IT HELP OR NOT

[joel0711]

I tried a longbow some last year (my 1st two "robin Hoods")with the bow but I could never get use to the hand  placement having no reference point as a recurve does (hill Style)....Loved the way the longbow shot but couldn't take the hand positioning. I'm in the market for another bow and was wanting to ask of if a locator or dished handle would help?????

[jsweka]

Short answer - yes.

[Orion]

Hmmmm.  I don't know.  On a Hill (style) bow, the locator or dish isn't very pronounced.  I find very little difference among them. They all have a reference point, lots of them. Top of the grip, for example, or the shape of the belly of the grip and where it fits into the palm of your hand, etc. Hill style bows, or American semi-longbows, are low wrist (fairly straight) grips.  There's just not much difference between a straight, indexed and dished Hill grip.  Of course, the index can be much more pronounced on modern pistol gripped hybrids.  Regardless, I've never found the lack of a deep throat to be a hindrance to gripping the bow consistently.  

In truth, it really doesn't make any difference if one's hand isn't in exactly the same position from shot to shot.  The brain compensates in consciously or unconsciously aligning the arrow with the target.  Most folks have a lot bigger shooting problems than minor differences in how they grip the bow from one shot to the next.  Of course, if you convince yourself that it makes a difference, it will.

[Cory Mattson]

For me and a bunch of our group - YES
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[Wile E. Coyote]

Definitely helped me.

Originally posted by jsweka:
Short answer - yes.

X2  

   

[Orion]

Interesting. I took another look at pix of Hill bows on the Hill thread, and to my eyes, there's very little difference in the various styles of grips, i.e., straight, dished and indexed.

To those for whom it makes a difference on your Hill (ASL) longbows, what kind of grip are your shooting and how does it contribute to consistent hand/grip placement over the straight grip? Pix would be helpful.

[STICKBENDER98]

I have three Northern Mist bows, that I have acquired in the past 4 or 5 years.  Before that all I had shot was recurves for roughly the last 20-25 years, that being said my first long bow was a Baraga with a locator grip that I bought in 2013 and I struggled with it terribly.  I bought a Whisper with the reverse handle in 2014, and was amazed at how much my consistency improved.  I ordered a Ramer last year in Kalamazoo, it also has a reverse handle, and I was surprised how much better I shot it.  The biggest thing that has helped me is to not think about my grip, I just pick up the bow and shoot, this has helped me a lot with my Baraga, but I still shoot my Ramer better.  I think sometimes we put way too much thought into what we are doing instead of letting our instincts take over.  Good luck in whatever direction you go and happy shooting.


Jason

[ChuckC]

I like a locator grip and i don't often disagree with Orion but do here.  Maybe just nuance of the statement but I think you can change grip ( location of balance or fulcrum caused by hand) and move the arrow point of impact up and down a fair amount.  My thoughts anyway.

[styksnstryngs]

You could also try a leather lace wrapped grip instead of a solid leather grip.

I don't disagree or agree with anyone on this thread.  The only way I can answer this one is by evolution.  

Having cut my teeth on high-wrist to medium-wrist recurves I found it challenging to adapt to the ASLs.  My transition began with semi-medium wrist longbows I built with Bingham products many years ago.

Enter Howard Hill...I took a 66" Sunset Hill bamboo longbow and shaped a "moderate locator" profile into the grip which was originally built as a "straight" grip.  That worked well and helped me transition to a straight (low wrist) traditional Hill (HHA) ASL.

I can't speak for the masses but my personal experience took a few years to allow comfortable and natural instinctive shooting with the straight grip.

For me, even the slightest change in grip profile messes me up.  I now own one ASL...a 66" Osage Royale made by Chuck Jones one of our sponsors.  I very slightly modified that grip...perfect for me.  

I'll never let that one go.

As with all of this stuff...YMMV

   

   

[Terry Lightle]

Absolutely

[Orion]

I don't deny that a deep index/pistol grip of a recurve or hybrid or deep index on a reverse handle longbow, for example, might feel more comfortable and perhaps help one get a more repeatable grip than the straighter grips of an ASL. But those types of grips aren't generally found on a Hill/ASL longbow.

ASLs are by definition low wrist, fairly straight grip bows.  Most builders just don't build very much dish or index into an ASL riser, so little, in fact, that it may be indistinguishable from a straight grip.  I reexamined the two Hills I have.  I think the grips may be dished, or perhaps straight.  Just not enough difference to really tell. That's why the implication from my response was that it likely wouldn't make a noticeable difference to the OP going from one type to another ON AN ASL bow. Of course, there's a big difference in feel between a straight gripped ASL and a highly indexed/pistol gripped recurve or hybrid.

Tony, if I read your experience right, the big issue for you was the transition from a high wrist, pistol grip to a low wrist ASL. That would be fairly common, and it seems to me, that's really what the OP is asking as well. The type of grip on the ASL isn't as big a problem as the fact that the straight/low wrist grip is a big difference from the pistol grip he's shooting now.  

For me, the differences in the three grip styles on an ASL make no difference.  That's why I'd like to find out how and why for some others the index or dish grip works better than a straight grip on a Hill/ASL longbow. Thanks for the input. Any more?

[danshao]

Personally, grip shape doesn’t seem to bother me at all. If the grip is too much shaped for hand position it also has a risk of not fitting, eg if the finger grove or thumb rest is too high. To me the only difference is the level of comfort, not so much to do with my accuracy. It is what it is whatever grip I’m holding.

I had much better days with the straight grip Berry Morningstar than rd longbows with low wrist grip shaped for hand positioning, and also worse days as well. As far as grip goes, it only takes a second and a quick check to make sure I’m gripping the bow in the right place. The deciding factor is always the overall form and the grip is only a small piece of it. There’s a hell lot of things in my form I can improve for my accuracy before the grip becomes the blocker.

I also find it helps when I have a loose grip with most of pressure on the heel but it’s just me. ymmv. Plus it doesn’t take long before I get used to any grip at which point it wouldn’t matter anyway.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

You will get a  lot of different answers.  I agree with Corey. It absolutely makes a d ifference for me but not for the same reasons as most.

But, it will depend on you. No one will be able to tell you what you prefer.

See if you can get your hands on a bow with alocater grip and see how it feels.  Hopefully you have guys in your area who shoot.

[George Vernon]

When switching from medium/high wrist deeply shaped recurves to an ASL, I found the biggest challenge for me was learning to consistently let the heel of my bow hand firmly touch the grip.  Just the opposite of what most folks find works best with high wrist grips.

When I’m shooting with heel contact and a little bit of pressure, I don’t notice any difference between straight, dished or indexed grips on a long bow.

If you don’t want to shoot with a heel ‘down’ grip, then maybe some sort of shaped grip would be best.

Many try to dominate the grip too much.  While the locators and dish grips can have varied specs, they are still not as important as getting the right size grip for your hand. Regardless of type, you should be able to hold your hand with your thumb up and just flop the bow on to your hand and gently put your fingers around it and let it fully settle when shooting. If it feels squirmy or if your hand slides during the draw causing you to force something, it is probably the wrong size.  Overly sharp and large grips can be painful.  Wide fat grips can swim around or ride out to far on the thumb pad.  The correct sized straight or dished grip can be held lightly or you can squeeze the rosin out of the riser without torquing the bow. I find that if my ring and middle finger center pad can lay on the back of the grip and allow the grip to heal a little, that there is nothing more to do.

[Sam McMichael]

All my Hill bows except one have either a straight or slightly dished grip. My light 40# HHA Cheetah has a locator grip. Due some neck/shoulder problems, it has been the only one I can draw reasonably well for a while now. It took a few days to get used to the locator grip, but, all in all, I shoot pretty much the same, whichever grip my bow has. I tend to use a low wrist hold with the locator grip, probably out of habit. Essentially, if the handle of the bow runs down the lifeline to the heel of my hand, I do O.K. Also, I agree with pavan that the size of the bow handle can make a significant difference in how you can handle the bow. My opinion is not worth much, but I just don't think a high wrist hold works well at all on most ASL bows.