MAKE HEAVY ARROWS HEAVIER

[BCR1985]

Hi Gang,

I'm experimenting with getting my #40 longbow to shoot as heavy a shaft as possible out to 20 yards. I've got some 2219 shafts that come in around 13.8 gpi. Heaviest Easton makes without breaking the bank for fmj's or grizzly stiks. What's the best way to increase overall arrow weight for these shafts? I realize this is a topic that's been discussed at length and that there's disagreement as to whether adding inner weight will affect spine. But what's the best way to effectively increase weight aside from the size of the head? To give you my specs, I'm shooting a #40 long bow at 27 inches. I'm probably drawing around 38 pounds give or take. I've got a 2219 test shaft cut to 30 inches with a 200 grain Kodiak up front. Haven't shot this set up yet, but am interested to see how it performs. I will tweak the spine until I get it right. My goal is a total arrow weight of 700 grains. Any suggestions on how to get there and still have these 2219's flying straight?

Best,

ed

[tecum-tha]

700 grain with 38# will be slow as molasses.
Especially with a 27" draw. I have no idea what you plan to do. But your arrow should have a decent combination of arrow speed and mass.
Neither extreme will be beneficial.
Unless you only plan to use this combo for target shooting to get a specific point on range for a fixed distance. For hunting this would be the worst.

[Zmonster]

WAYYYY too much spine. You'll need like 1000gr up front. 2219 spine around 80-90 if I recall.

[9 Shocks]

You could probably shoot a 2016 cut to 30" with 200 grains on the front and be a little over 600 grains.  The spine will be closer and the bow will still be deadly quiet with a little better trajectory.  But if it were me, I would go with an 1816 cut to 28 with a 145-175 grain point.

[Ari_Bonn]

That just don't seem right I used to shoot a 2219 with a 250 gr point out of my 65#.   Those are gonna be way to stiff for you.   Realistically heavies you should go is 500gr with your bow weight you won't have any penetration issues with a 2 blade

[BCR1985]

Originally posted by tecum-tha:
700 grain with 38# will be slow as molasses.
Especially with a 27" draw. I have no idea what you plan to do. But your arrow should have a decent combination of arrow speed and mass.
Neither extreme will be beneficial.
Unless you only plan to use this combo for target shooting to get a specific point on range for a fixed distance. For hunting this would be the worst.

[BCR1985]

Again, adding weight and length will decrease the spine. Stiffness can be altered. How does one increase the overall weight of an arrow like this? I'm not worried about speed at all. Speed doesn't kill as well as penetration.

[Ari_Bonn]

according to my calculations if you leave a 2219 at 32"  with a 250-300 gr point it should tune right. But your looking at over 750 gr.   Yes it will hit hard but your arcs are going to be huge as it is I don't know why you would want even more weight than that.   You can add para cord or fish tank tubing into it if you really want.   With a 450-500gr arrow out of a 40# bow you will kill most things very clean if your going for something larger then I would go for a 50#.

[creekwood]

Originally posted by BCR1985:
Hi Gang,

I'm experimenting with getting as heavy a shaft as possible out to 20 yards. But what's the best way to effectively increase weight aside from the size of the head?

Best,

ed

Guys, let's try to answer his question and Ed, after you are done experimenting, please let us know how it turned out.

[Ari_Bonn]

Originally posted by creekwood:
 

Originally posted by BCR1985:
Hi Gang,

I'm experimenting with getting as heavy a shaft as possible out to 20 yards. But what's the best way to effectively increase weight aside from the size of the head?

Best,

ed

Guys, let's try to answer his question and Ed, after you are done experimenting, please let us know how it turned out. [/b]

I have done a 40# with a 2219 at 29" with 250 gr points.    It hit hard but It was so slow and dropped a ton even at 10 yard.

[Tom1954]

If you are using stock aluminum inserts, you could swap them out for heavier brass inserts.

[YosemiteSam]

If you're trying to do something way outside the norm & very specific (like shoot 700+ gr arrows from a 38# recurve), I'd suggest trying to find the equipment needed to do it right.  If that means buying new, expensive shafts, new heads, etc., then so be it.  If that requires new equipment to set, repair & adjust the new shafts, so be it.  Be prepared to invest in your idea to make it work well.

I haven't shot aluminums since the '90s.  But with carbons and woodies, you can play with the recipe quite a bit.  The basic idea is still the same: find an overly stiff shaft, keep them long, add lots of front weight until it's weak, bulk up your strike plate & play with your brace height if it's too weak.  Voila!  Heavy arrow shooting where you need it to.

[M60gunner]

Instead of 2219 try 2020. They are both in the 13gpi range and the smaller diameter may help with tuning. Recall an old guy here in AZ telling me he shot a deer length wise with a 40# recurve using 2020 arrow. Arrow stopped just as it was coming out the deers butt area. This was way back in the 60’s before EFC was invented.

[Tim Finley]

You say speed doesn't kill without penetration your not going to get penetration with a bow that light and an arrow that heavy . For hunting and 3ds 400 grains will work a lot better . Its also very hard to hit something with a rainbow trajectory.
  I have some 750 grain compressed wood arrows, my buddy and I were shooting at 20 yards with 50lb. bows. I gave him one of heavy arrows to try and it dropped so much it threw up dirt, we were laughing at the drop. You need weight and velocity to get maximum penetration velocity will get you more than just weight.

[Roadkill]

Pick an aluminum shaft that you can get nock inserts for, then weight up the interior of the shaft with ‘stuff’.    You might just consider looking at other options and shafting. Our chronograph probably would not register an arrow as slow as the one you describe. We just tapered and fletched a fish arrow-got 1200 grains, but 40 pounds==wow too slow to get out of its way

[ChuckC]

Forrester makes heavy wood arrows / shafts.  I have some shafts of leopardwood that will make 800-900 grain finished arrows.

[styksnstryngs]

Force=mass x acceleration

380 grn x 185 fps=70,300 units of force
450 grn x 165 fps=74,250 units of force
750 grn x 80 fps=60,000 units of force

Obviously, these are random guesses, especially that last number, but I'm being conservative anyways and this shows basically that mass isn't everything.

[BWallace10327]

      This thread has me rolling with laughter.

[McDave]

Styks, you are multiplying mass X velocity which equals momentum, not force.  There is no acceleration in an arrow once it leaves the bow, only deceleration. Interestingly, while you are using the wrong terminology, I agree with your conclusion.

[Nantahala Nut]

I have a 38# recurve that I tuned up an arrow to a little less than 500 grains. I draw 28. It was a GT Trad Classic 600 spine. Fun bow to shoot but they start to drop like a rock at 20 yards. If you want an effective hunting arrow for that bow I think your gonna need to be around 450 grains. Speed isnt everything and weight isnt everything. Find a good marriage of the two.