INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along  (Read 65785 times)

Offline soopernate

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 553
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2009, 05:07:00 PM »
I absolutely LOVE this buildalong.  Great job.  I hope this goes somewhere permanent for new guys to reference.
I humbly follow in the learned footsteps of those who precede me.

Offline drydave

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2009, 09:32:00 PM »
Very nice buildup!  In fact, I am one that has been researching building my own bow for a couple months....and found many of the answers to my questions right here.  In addition, this is almost exactly the bow I was envisioning for my first build- fairly easy and inexpensive, with a good looking and USABLE bow. (I am hoping to start mine over thankgiving!)

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2009, 11:51:00 PM »
I found a new water repellant finish I like considerably better than the mink oil.  Although mink oil is a great moisture barrier, it must be reapplied frequently and doesn't build up.  The new stuff I've been using lately with great results (even in the rain) is Birchwood-Casey's Gunstock Wax.  It's a blend of beeswax, carnuba, and silcone.  It builds a nice finish over the lacquer that, although glossy, can be dulled with steel wool.  Unlike oil, it won't rub off.  It's great stuff, and it's just as cheap as the last tin of mink oil I bought ($6.00).
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2009, 07:01:00 PM »
I had to edit Round 2 on page one of this thread.  The tips should be 1/2" wide total.  I made a mistake and, if you followed my instructions exactly, you would have ended up with 1" tips.  SO SORRY!  Again, the tips should be a 1/2" wide.  

If you made them 1" wide, don't sweat it.  Just draw a new taper line on either side of each limb and taper accordingly.
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline bubby

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 258
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2009, 01:49:00 PM »
hey forest, I've got a 70" boo backed epe that I want to pike the length to 66", and I was wondering if you have done those recurved tip's on a boo backed bow

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2009, 05:34:00 PM »
Never done 'em on boo backed bows...I'm sure some guys with more experience using bamboo will chime in (Dano, Art, Nick, etc.)  My first inclination is that you would treat such a task much like glueing on nock overlays, only your overlay would be much longer.  I'll defer to those more experience than I with boo.
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline bubby

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 258
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2009, 10:35:00 PM »
well I got antsy and got started, thought like you so I sanded the last 6" of the boo flat and glued on some blak walnut with 5 min. epoxy. we will see how it goes tomorrow, thanks for the quick reply,bub

Offline bubby

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 258
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2009, 10:36:00 PM »
well I got antsy and got started, thought like you so I sanded the last 6" of the boo flat and glued on some blak walnut with 5 min. epoxy. we will see how it goes tomorrow, thanks for the quick reply,bub

Offline bubby

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 258
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2009, 10:37:00 PM »
well I got antsy and got started, thought like you so I sanded the last 6" of the boo flat and glued on some blak walnut with 5 min. epoxy. we will see how it goes tomorrow, thanks for the quick reply,bub

Offline dutchwarbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 326
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2009, 03:57:00 AM »
This is a great buildalong !

good stuff man  ;)

I have a few pointers, hope you don't mind:

- the fading in the handlethickness starts when it's already at the widest point. This gives your handle a blocky look. It will look much nicer if they start to taper in thickness and width at the same spot.

- the handle is at the thinnest exactly at the middle, were it's not needes. If you make it wider at the centre, then narrower towards the arrowpass, then fade it out, you will have a much more comfortable, better looking handle. it'll look like this:
\\/
()
/\\
I'd also make the wrapping longer, for looks. Just as on the picture of the other bow you posted.

- I love the scorching of the stringgrooves!!! gonna try that  :D

- I love you recurves, gonna try that aswell!  :)

Nick
in the old days religion had it's use to keep nations together. Today, religion tears nations apart.

Nick

Offline dutchwarbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 326
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2009, 03:59:00 AM »
bubby, I'm going to try those recurves, as I said in my post above. I'll post pics. Haven't been too active in bowmaking lately, so it might take a while.

oh and 4estrekker, hope you don't mind me being so direct. That's how we dutchies are!

Nick
in the old days religion had it's use to keep nations together. Today, religion tears nations apart.

Nick

Offline razorback

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2166
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2009, 09:44:00 AM »
Nick. I had the same thought on the handle and am getting close to cutting the handle on my bow. I will make a couple of practice pieces to experiment with design and will post some finished pictures. I made the recurve tips and handle riser out of black walnut and am thinking of antler for the overlays. Should look good, I hope, though have never done overlays.
4Est have you done any handles like this, or wood combo's on this type of bow and if so how did it work out.
Keep the wind in your face and the sun at your back.

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2009, 10:50:00 AM »
Thanks all for your replies, and thanks Nick for the suggestions.  I like when folks are direct...saves all that dancing around the bush!        :thumbsup:  

Thanks again everybody for following along.  I'm learning a bunch in the process.  Keep the ideas coming, and I'm anxious to see some pictures!
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline Stiks-n-Strings

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 3226
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2009, 11:40:00 AM »
Well 4est, here we go, I got my supplies ready but been super busy with other stuff.
 I need the specs on a bow for about 30# at 26"  and  45# at 28" and about 56" to 60"
 
 Also need the specs on the bow you built for your boy.
Thanks, Kris.
 I will post pics as I go. Those bows on the link you posted were some good looking sticks.
Striker stinger 58" 55# @ 28
any wood bow I pick off the rack.
 2 Cor. 10:4
 TGMM Family of The Bow
 MK, LLC Shareholder
Proud Member of the Twister Twelve

Offline matt g meyers

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2009, 10:10:00 PM »
Hey 4est, thanks a bunch. This build a long came just in time for the Oregon rains.
So I started a bow and had to end up shortening things up quite a bit.I had some grain separation that was very well camoflaged,and with all the time invested I couldn't walk away.
I trimmed the limb tips and now I'm looking at a 53" nock to nock.2" tapered to 1/2" tips.
I've thinned the belly down to 3/8"and this thing is still way too beefy for my son.
Having never worked with oak like this,my question is how thin can I get the limbs before I go to far?
Thanks for all your time on this build a long. MM
"this is a weapon from this century...I just made it!"

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2009, 10:46:00 PM »
Matt:  Yeah, at 53" and 3/8 thick you're going to have a brute of a stick.  What is his draw length and what weight are you shooting for?  I usually figure a bow's length is twice as long as the shooter's draw length plus 15%, plus 1".   That is:

Bow Length=((Draw Length x 2) x 1.15) +1.  

Working backwards, the max I would draw a 53 unbacked bow is 23".  You could back it with linen, burlap, brown paper, etc. and eek it out a little bit more draw length.  

I made a little unbacked red oak pyramid bow for my cousin to take rabbit hunting.  It's 48" ntn, 2" at the fades, 1/2" at the tips, 5/16" thick, and pulls 35# @ 20".  Hopefully that'll help get you in the ballpark of where you want to be.    Just remember, when you're dealing with bows this short, you need to make sure you get ALL of the limb bending, especially out of the fades.  Otherwise you'll overstress the limb at some point and it'll start to fret.  There is less room for error when tillering short bows.

As far as grain separation goes, sometimes you can saturate the area in superglue and then wrap tightly with silk or linen thread, sinew, etc.  Even artificial sinew and bowstring material can be used.  I've saved a handful of bows this way that are still shooting several years later.  Wrap the other limb in the same way to make it look purposeful     :biglaugh:    Good luck, and post some pictures.
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2009, 11:34:00 PM »
Kris:  It's hard to nail down a "recipe" for board bows, self bows, etc.  You can get pretty close, but there's always a margin of error both ways because you're dealing with an organic material.  Now, the more control you have over the components of the bow, the closer you can get to a recipe.  For example, you can make a laminated wood bow and get really if not exact every time because you're laminating, which gives you more control over the make-up of the wood.  You can even choose different woods for the back, belly, and core based on their characteristics.  On the far end of the spectrum, you hear builders who use glass in their bows talk about recipes all the time.  That's because they utilizing wood laminations PLUS the consistency of fiberglass (a non-organic material).  

That being said, I can offer you some suggestions on getting close to your intended weight per draw length, and encourage any bowyers with pyramid bow specs to offer them up for comparison.  But first, I wouldn't make your bows 56"-60" long.  Here's why.  As I stated in my previous post, I use the following formula for determining minimum bow length:

Bow Length=((Draw Length x 2) x 1.15)+1

For 30# at 26" bow, I'd make it 61" long MINIMUM (60" ntn).  For the 45# bow I'd make it 64" long MINIMUM (63" ntn).  Now, say you come up short in weight and need to pike it (shorten it to increase draw weight.)  Generally you shorten both tips 1" to gain 5# in draw weight.  It you've built the bow at the margin of safety, you don't have much to play with.  Plus, we're working with unbacked red oak, not osage or hickory, both of which can take more abuse.

BUT (ah, the exception) you can always use the glue-one recurve to add a few pounds (up to about 5#) at the given bow length if you come in too low.  So, you've built the bow at the margin and come in under weight but haven't done the glue-on recurve tips, simply the add them and your weight will go up.  If you've already rounded the edges at the tips on the back of the bow (which would not lead to a good joint) just bevel them like you would when adding tip overlays, only over a longer run.    

So, for my overall recommendations (which I hope others can chime in on).  Again, I have a hard time nailing a draw weight/draw length out of the air.  These are specs from bows I have built; but again, they're GUIDELINES!  Adjust as necessary.

30#@26" = 62" overall (61"ntn), 2.5" at the fades, 1/2" at the tips, 13/32" thick.  If you come in heavy, you can just scrape the belly evenly on both sides to drop the weight.  Too low?  Pike it a little (assuming you haven't added the recurved tips yet).  

45#@28" = 66" overall (65" ntn), 2.5" at the fades, 1/2 at the tips, 7/16" thick.  

Both of these assume the same riser/fade layout as shown in the build-along.

Sorry this got so long.  I hope it answers your questions and gets you started in the right direction. If you don't hit your target weight, then don't hit me either!     :knothead:   Heck, as cheap and quick as it is to build these things, you'll have a rack full of bows to give away if nothing else!  

PS The specs for my son's bow you inquired about are: 47" ntn, 2 7/8" at the fades, 1/4" at the tips (yikes!), 9/32" thick, 25#@22".  The glue-on recurved tips are more like miniature siyahs (found on a horsebows).
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2009, 12:14:00 AM »
One update:  The formula used above to determine the length of the bow is what I used to unbacked red oak bows.  If using higher quality woods and/or backing the bow, you obviously can make it shorter.  A lot of bowyers use this formula:

Bow Length = (Draw Length x 2) x 1.1

To explain, that means take your draw length, double it, and then add 10%.  I add 15% plus 1".  Some bowyers add 20%.

I made the bow in this build-along 68" for an added measure of safety because it's red oak, it's unbacked, and I expected a lot of first-time bowyers to follow along.   Hopefully some of them are busy at work and will post their pictures soon.  Looking forward to it!     :thumbsup:
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline Stiks-n-Strings

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 3226
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2009, 12:53:00 AM »
Right on 4est,
With your formula for my draw length I end with 66" with 2x draw length x 1.1 I end up with 62" so for the sake of experimenting I'm gonna go with 60" overall and do a backing of brown paper under snake skin. 2.5 at the fades .5 at nock and start out at 7/16 on the limbs and see what happens.
 What do you think about that, should be good since I'm backing it I figure or am I wrong? I haven't started making sawdust just yet just trying to get a good plan together before I do and screw it up. Measure 3 times and cut once, right LOL.
 
Would it hurt to take the fades down to 2" and if not will that reduce draw weight (I figure it will but don't want it be unsafe or take alot of set). I'll probably go ahead with 2.5 but was just wondering.
Striker stinger 58" 55# @ 28
any wood bow I pick off the rack.
 2 Cor. 10:4
 TGMM Family of The Bow
 MK, LLC Shareholder
Proud Member of the Twister Twelve

Offline 4est trekker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1393
Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2009, 07:59:00 AM »
I would hesitate to go 60" for your draw length using red oak.  That's asking a lot of that species of wood.  Making it longer and wider allows more back wood do under tension, thereby reducing the odds that the bow will fail.  Likewise, there's more wood undergoing compression, thereby reducing the risk of undue set.

You could narrow the limb width to 2", but you'd need to thicken the limb just a tad (1/32" of an inch at the most, probably).  This could actually be beneficial if you'd got a beauty of a board.  Wood is 8x when doubled in thickness, but only 2x stronger when doubled in width.  So, it takes just a very small amount of wood added to the belly to compensate for the wood removed from the sides of the limbs.  The benefit is a bow lighter in mass.  Now, as Dutchwarbow state in an earlier post, you can always start with 2.5" and then trim the width of the bow near the fades as the limbs begin to thicken.  You're adding thickness wood very quickly here, so taking a little of the sides will not be a problem.  It will give your bow slightly less mass and a more rounded look.  

I like that snake skin idea!  Looking forward to it.  Can't wait to see some pictures    :thumbsup:
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©