Hill Shooters

[Steve Branson]

I shoot a Hill Big Five, 58# @ 30" draw. I get alot of hand shock out of my bow. I have tried to adjust the brace height but it didn't seem to do much. Do Hill bows tend to have more shock? I haven't shot alot of different longbows to be able to compare mine to any others, so I don't really know how much is normal or what is excessive. Thanks!

[bayoulongbowman]

Steve, take a serious look a Liberty bows by Mr. Allen Boise, His English bow , might just be what ya want...his bows are flawless, workmanship and finish work are second to none!...          :D

[Steve Branson]

I dont really want to buy another new bow before I at least give my Hill a fair chance. I doubt that my bow is a bad bow, I think me being still a greenhorn to trad shooting and tuning has more to do with it.  

[Squirrel Bait]

Keep your bow arm bent, don't lock your elbow. Make sure your shooting a heavy enough arrow, say at least 9 gr. per lb. of bow weight. I shoot 58lb. at 28" and shoot 650 gr . arrow.

[Steve Branson]

I called 3 Rivers and talked to a tech about my arrow selection. at 30" shooting 58# he suggested a 70-75 shaft. Not sure what the total arrow weight will be.

[longbowguy]

You are pulling a lot of weight- around 65# at your draw length. And the Big Five bow, with its bamboo limbs, is light in the hand. So there is a lot of energy exchange going on there. But these bows can usually be made to shoot sweetly with proper setup.

I'd shoot for at least 650 grain arrows. The larger 23/64 diameter would help achieve that with cedar shafts which are among the lightest of arrow woods. I would obtain several different weights of field points for tuning purposes, and leave the shafts long to start with. I would set the brace height at about 7 inches.

I suggest a gentle grip on the bow. Take the weight of it in the meat alongside your thumb, with most of the weight in line with the top bone of your forearm. These bows are light and lively--not 'dead in the hand.' They are alive! This is not necessarily 'shock' and many consider it to be among the charms of this kind of bow. I hope you come to find it so.

[Steve Branson]

My bow is actually a 55# @ 28", but at my 30" draw I am pulling 58#(I used a scale). The arrows I ordered are 11/32", so I might be shooting a little too light of an arrow?? I plan on using 125gr. points. I'll have to see when I get them what the total gpi is.

[John McCreary]

Steve,
  I shoot a Hill Wesly Special , 54 @ 30". I've found that 31" to the back of the point 66-70 lbs 11/32" ceders topped off with 125 grain points work the best for me. I would think with your extra 4 lbs of draw weight , the 70 75's would be fine. I agree with the above, Hills seem to prefer heavy shafts with 9 grains per pound a tad light and 12 being a bit to much for good arrow flight past 20 yards.
  As far as your hand shock issue, is your bow of new manufacture, ie: built by Craig Ekin or is it an older model? Craig's bows seem to have less shock due to his limb design. You may want to play with the way you grip the bow. I've found that if I roll my hand out slightly I get better arrow flight and much less hand shock. By out I mean to line up the proximal knuckle of the thumb more towards the center of the handle almost as if you're holding the palm of your hand on the side of the bow.

JOhn

[Frank V]

A trick I learned from Bob Burton is to grip the longbow as you would pick up a heavy suitcase. This will place the thumb knuckle of your shooting hand on center line with your longbow not in the web of your thumb & 1st finger. I shoot Fox longbows, & this has greatly helped my shooting & handshock has become a ting of the past. I hope I have described the hand placement accuratly it sure has helped me. It will also eliminate string slap on your forearm unless wearing long sleeves or jacket. Frank

[bayoulongbowman]

There is Hill style bow called Sunset Hill bows, by nate Steen . Nate was taught by one of Howard's best understudies, John Shultz, he makes them to fit the shooter, a true custom , so you wont want to sell this bow, because its built for your body and draw. No handshock, and pure joy of the real Hill style!!!      

[longbowguy]

Steve:
That bow is still fairly heavy. 125 grain points might not be best, probably are not. 125 grain points seem to match up well 50 pound bows give our take. With lighter bows I like 100 grain points, or 70. With heavier bows I like heavier points. The Asbell studies on this site very powerfully support that idea. I'd try for a little more weight in the point, and therefor in the total arrow with your somewhat heavy bow and long draw length. It depends upon being able to tune the arrow perfectly with the weight you wish for. I would expect that it would with work out with the bow and the shafts you have got.

Taken another way-- the Asbell studies very strongly show that high arrow weight works very well on large game, if the bow is heavy enough to throw the weight. You bow is moderately heavy. I would suggest you tune for a moderately heavy arrow. Point weight is the simplest way to get there, if the spine weight of your shafts is sufficient. So I would try to tune your shafts with heavy points. This would likely involve not ending up with them overlong. But I would still begin tuning with them overlong, and cut a half inch at a time.

[John McCreary]

Longbowguy,
  Good points, Dr Asby's Natal Study and the good Doc's more current work support the theory of heavy shafts and heavy points for superior penetration on big game. However as the founding member of the "Grass Stained Knuckle Society" I can tell you it is VERY difficult to get quaility wood shafts stiff enough to handle 190 -200 grain points when shooting the heavy weights at long draw lengths. Bear in mind that as you go up in head weight you must also go up in spine stiffness. I find for me an 80 pound shaft is required for a 200 grain broadhead on a 31" shaft off a 54 lb longbow. The heavier one goes up in spine the more difficult it becomes to find consistant quality in wood shafts. That is why I generally use 125 grain points. Even with aluminum and {gasp} carbon shafts it can be difficult to find stiff enough shafts to handle those big heads when shooting 70+ pounds at a 30" - 31" draw length. Back when I was young and strong I shot 2219's off an 80 pound longbow as I could never find decent wood shafts, in the 95 lb spine range, not with any consistancy.

John

[mike g]

Balony....My Hill has no hand shock....
Use a proper weight Arrow and hold them right and they are a pleasure to shoot....

[Steve Branson]

Thanks for all of the input guys. I still haven't recieved my arrows yet to see how they shoot..maybe I'll get lucky and they will fly like darts! I added some fur string silencers on the bow and a new leather grip. I'm going to try some suggestions on grip and see if I can find a sweet spot. The Hill is an old design, it was given to me by a good friend of mine. He said it was signed by Howard Hill, but did all of the older models have his signiature on them?

[longbowguy]

The current ones still have Howard Hill's signature on them, but it is a replica, of course. Let us know how it goes. I expect we can get that bow to shoot just where you look and so quietly you can dispense with the fur balls.

[Alex.B]

the problem is in your bow arm, keep it bent, and rotate elbow inward. that combined with heavy arrows, you have no handshock what..so..ever

[aromakr]

Steve:
That is not Howards signature on the bows, its just his name written by the bowyer that happened to make the bow. I have never seen a bow made by Howard that had his name on it. It would only have the name he named the bow, which is something he always did. During the construction process something would happen that would inspire the name.
Bob

[waya]

I have two Hills-a 70" Big Five and a 66" Owl takedown. Most of my arrows that I use with these two bows are around 500 grains and are cedar. I do find there is more handshock with my Big Five than with the Owl even with the takedown feature.The BF was built my Ted Kramer in the late '70s and my Owl was built by Craig around 1999.Shooting heavier arrows does make the bows more quiet but there is still a hint of handshock.

[schnitz]

hows the bow shooten i have a 73 lbs big five love mine

[NativeArcher]

been looking at the Hill catalog lately all the bows seem similarly designed. is there any real difference in the different models in respects to shootability / smoothness, pending wood / lamination amounts. thanks ...matt