how does my form look?

[madness522]

Since there are no trad shops near here and no one I hunt with shooting trad I have no idea if my form is good or not.  The arrows seem to go where I'm looking....most of the time.

How is my form?

  see the video here.

[kawika b]

looks purty good to me.

[longbowguy]

Well, you could use a better cap. And you are quick. That is fine for hunting, and I'm guessing that is your main interest. But you don't snap shoot; you have a brief pause, just make sure you use it to refine your aim if you need to. And you shoot to a regular rhythem, which is good for hunting archery. I like the length of your arrows and the glove you have chosen. I believe it is the Damascus brand.

I have only one concern: you shoot three fingers under and have a rather high anchor. The butt of your arrow is high. That is fine, especially for hunting ranges.  But I cannot tell from these pictures whether the butt of the arrow is under your eye or off to the side. It really should be under. If it is not you will need a form change to make it so. These vary mainly depending upon the shape of an archer's face.

If it is under I would not change a thing. If it is not you have some work to do. Let us know if we can help.

[Guru]

Looks to me that you're not pulling enough with your back muscles. Which isn't getting your eblow back far enough and giving you proper alignment.
 
Your elbow at full draw/anchor should be where it's ending up after your release(follow thru). Don't lean forward or tip your head forward. This will get your elbow back,give you a longer draw,hence a bigger power stroke(more horse power behind your arrows),but more importantly,proper alignment.

my opinion from what I see on your video....

[madness522]

Thanks for the input guys.

Curt, if I pull back farther I loose my anchor point.  I tried to find one as repeatable and comfortable as the middle finger tip at the corner of mouth.  Any idea on where to try for a new anchor point?  I'll try getting my elbow back at full draw this evening without leaning forward and no tipping my head and see what happens.

Steve, you say you're concerned about the high anchor.  Can you explain that a little more?  Is a high anchor point not a good thing?  So far I only shot out to 30 yards a time or two and I hold the arrow point dead on at 30 yards.  I can't imagine shooting farther than that at any type of game.  Yep, that is a Damascus glove and yesterday was the inaugural flights of those arrow (first ones I have made).

[UKarcher]

What Guru says is spot on. You are dipping your head forward as you draw. In other words you are shortening your drawlength. If you keep your head up, you will find that your elbow will move further back for you to reach your reference point. This gives you a longer drawlength, better use of the back muscles and less chance of injury from a misalaigned neck.
The only concern I have when I see high anchor points, is one of safety. I've seen a plastic nock explode in someone's face and cut the bottom eyelid. Too close to the eye for my liking.
Graham

[Terry Green]

Yes...not getting full extention like Guru said.

I also anchore middle in the corner, but I drag the corner back till my thumb base slides behind my jaw as sort of a second anchor....and this gets my elbow back to the 6 O'Clock position creating proper alignment and back tension....

It looks as though your elbow is pointing much closer to 5 O'clock than 6.  

You want to be aligned like this........

   


Not like this......

   


Here's something else that may help.....With all the energy going toward and away from the target from proper back tension and alignment, you also get the added benifit of a good release and follow through, and a steady bow arm.
.
.
  Elbow position and bow arm.

[madness522]

I too use the thumb base hooked behind my lower jaw as a second anchor.  I think my head leaning forward is causing the short draw and elbow not being at 5 oclock.  Thanks for the pics Terry, they say more than words can describe.

[madness522]

The results are in. I think I am over bowed.  The first six arrows at full draw with my head back and right elbow at six o'clock flew like darts and grouped well.  The next six didn't fly or group as well and I had a hard time keeping my head back and right elbow at six o'clock.  The next six I was right back where I was in the video. The group was good but a few of them had the wobbles.  I really like the Mikuta at 57# but I think it's just too much bow for me.  Guess I'll have to sell a wheel bow and by a lighter curve.  Maybe something closer to 50#

[Otto]

Madness

You may not have to sell that bow....

The way you get to pulling heavier bows is...to pull heavier bows.  I would start with the one you have.  Pull it to full draw (without an arrow) and hold it for say 1 second.  Let down.  Repeat for sets of 10.  Do that periodically in the evening.   Treat the bow as a piece of exercise equipment.  As you move up in your ability to handle it, increase the hold time, or increase the # of reps from 10 to 15, or decrease the wait time between reps.

Many folks don't realize that a bow makes a great exercise tool and all you have to do to get stronger is use it more often.

[madness522]

Otto, I don't want to sell it that would hurt my feelings!  I would sell one of my wheeled bows without any hesitation at all.  I have a new Outback all rigged and ready to go that I would sell and probably order a new Bob Lee or find a deal on a used Brack/Morrison/BW/or something along those lines.  I love to shoot and not being able to shoot with the proper form is only making this learning curve longer and harder.  So many decisions, so little time.....

[Guru]

Good advice Otto...I totally agree!

[Terry Green]

Otto is correct....if you 'work out' with that bow every other day 3 sets of 10 to full draw for the 1st week, and move to 4 sets of 10 the 2nd week, you will be man handling that 57# bow somewhere in the 3rd week.  Just make sure you warm up a bit with 4 or 5 slow half draws before you start your reps.

All you have to do is shoot regularly...but a lighter bow is not a bad idea....And you could do your shooting with it while training with the 57#er.  I'm sure the shot 'felt' better with that alignment and back tension huh?

I drop down about 5#s every Nov. while in the tree stands when it gets cold, and move back up after the season when I'm doing a lot of ground hunting and its easy to stay warm doing a lot of walking.  I just start drawing my heavier bows like I stated above, and I'm right back in no time.

[longbowguy]

Well, let's wait a minute. Your anchor is a bit high. But that is not a bad thing as you have confirmed my guess that you are interested only in hunting archery and shoot only out to 30 yards. You lean into your shot and do not have a long draw but those facts also are fine for hunting. At that draw length you do not appear to me to be overbowed. If your eye is over your arrow, you are mainly interested in hunting and short range 3d events, you may have just the style you need.

Me, I shoot mainly targets and have a much more upright style and longer draw, as some above have described. If that is what you want you need a form overhaul and a lighter bow.

For hunting and 3D to about 45 yards I like your style just as it is.

[kawika b]

better question,,,how are you hitting?

[Terry Green]

Proper alignment will serve you better as a shooter, no matter if you are shooting targets or hunting.  It will make your shot more forgiving in the bowhunter's world of not so perfect shots, positions, and terrain.

It will give you a better release, steadier bow arm, and less torque on the bow and string.  I personally  don't think you need a form overhaul, just full extention to proper back tension.

[madness522]

Thanks for all the replies guys!!  I'll try to respond to them all here.  Steve, the arrow is under my eye (most of the time).  There are times, especially after a bunch of shooting my form gets sloppy and I don't quit as soon as I should.  Kawika, my groups are decent to pretty good.  The biggest problem and the reason for the vid is the number of fliers.  I can shoot a tight group of six arras at 15 years and the next I have a flier or two.  The real problem became more evident that something wasnt' right when I was goofing around and backed up to 25 and 30 yards to shoot.  There were way too many arrows barrel rolling and not flying like darts.  I did mark the arrows and it wasn't the same ones flying poorly.  My next guess was the reason for the poor flight was happening behind the bow.  In watching the whole video and not just the spliced one I linked to it appears that my draw, anchor and release is very very close to being the same on every shot.  In the 15 shots I have on video there is only one where it looks like I peeked or pulled my head up and the arrow was released.

Terry, I agree that learning how to do it right from the get to is the best way to learn.  My competetive nature drives me to be the best I can be at whatever I do. So I want to learn the right way.  The shots with full extension do feel much better and the arrows are straighter in the target and did seem to fly better but it would be better to see their flight at 25-30 yards.

Thanks again for all of your input it is greatly appreciated!!  Barry

[Terry Green]

Smart man Barry to recognize that you do need to do it right....and that you might even need a lighter bow.

Good form knows not whether the target is paper or fur, good form executes a good shot, period.  Now, you can have good form in any number of 'styles'....and that's the great thing about our sport, we can all personalize our own style to fit our hunting personality.

[Baim]

Man, so glad I read this post..Terry, your pictures posted of correct alignment helps me tremendously!  You hear how to do it, but seeing it like that really clicked with me. Thanks..

Steph.

[GrayRhino]

Terry, great pictures about right and wrong form!  Since so many people are reading this thread and learning from it, could you explain about the stance (open vs. closed), and position of the feet?