A4C's Form vids: NEW ADDITION with Dalaa bow pg. 3

[Arrow4Christ]

     
Hey guys! My shooting has improved lately but my form is worse than I thought. I decided to video myself today and would like to know your opinions on whats going wrong. My biggest problem is arrows hitting to the left, it happens a lot. I can see my bow arm collapsing and would like to know what you think is going wrong and what other problems I may have. Thanks!
Craig

Unfortunately the clips were deleted by the topic starter.  It was a great contrast from where he started and where he ended up.

[Terry Green]

I'd rather see you shoot from the other side....but here's what I see from this angle....

You are droppin your bow arm, and your drawing arm elbow is also ending up lower on your follow through.....which tells me your are somehow not aligned properly - which is causeing you to torque your bow - and causing a release that looks 'violent'.  There's a lot of movement after you drop the string.

Not sure but it looks like your bow hand is much higher than your bow shoulder...which could be the reason for all the stuff I listed above.

[Terry Green]

This is what I 'think' I'm seeing....and the reason you have a lot of movement on the shot.  You are trying to hold on target more with your muscles than bone structure.

   

 

[Terry Green]

I just looked again...and your bow arm is dropping even before you release....look close, the bow starts dropping a split second before the arrow moves....there is so much muscle stress and/or torque that you are getting a downward movement even before the string clears your fingers.  Again, that's what I 'think' I see.

[Arrow4Christ]

I tried to align my bow arm with the shoulder and I think I made it worse  :(  Here's a video from the other side...what do you suggest I do to correct the problem?

 

[Terry Green]

You are collapsing/panicing/flinching/peaking...and dropping your entire aligment before you release.  Look at where your string hand is when your elbow goes back....its at your chest!!!  You are releasing a long way away from your anchore.

I think this is a mental issue with your release.  You are throwing everything away and toward the ground before you even let go.  I have no idea how you are directing that energy in that direction without mental influence.

[Al Dean]

It looks to me like the cant of your bow is never steady.  Seems to be moving left and right during the entire shot process.

[Hatrick]

Graig, a couple of things that may help. First off the basics. Pick a spot... aim small, miss small. As Terry pointed out, the bow arm is dropping and that's a killer. What I see is that you basically just pull the string. There is no pushing action with the bow arm. Your bow arm is locked in position before you even pull the string. You begin by slightly leaning forward with the locked arm and then slightly straighten back as you pull. By doing this you are not pushing to the target. If you are going to do a swing type draw like that you need to be pushing as you are pulling. Concentrate on pushing towards the target as you release thus keeping your bow arm up and directed towards the target as a follow-through motion. I think this is another reason why, as Terry pointed out, your draw elbow goes so high. It's simply doing all the work so you are over compensating. You need to push-pull using your back muscles while following through with your bow arm and the left hand should draw straight back slightly through the anchor upon release. These are just some points that have helped me. Others may have a different opinion but it's worth a try.

Also, you shoot from the wrong side, LOL, just kidding there. It will get better but only by practicing better form. Over compensation is sometimes a sign of being overbowed. A light bow really helps when working on your form!

Good Luck,      

[jhansen]

What Terry and Al said!  If you don't mind a suggestion, go do some form practice at point blank range with your eyes closed.  At first don't even release the arrow.  Just come back to full draw with your eyes closed, mentally check your form, and let down slowly.  Create a mental checklist: foot position, angle to target, grip on bow, bow arm position, draw fingers hook-on, draw straight back, firm anchor position, back muscles trying to pull shoulder blades together, drawing elbow as far back as you can get it.  If you can't come to full draw and hold it for several seconds comfortably, you have a clue.  You are overbowed and need something lighter in draw weight for now.  You can move back up later.

Once you have all that down, take the next step.  Close enough to the target that you can't miss, look at the target to align yourself, close your eyes and come to full draw.  Hold that position for a few moments then relax your drawing hand and let the string slip away.  Your hand should not move away from your face.  It should collapse by your ear.

I know we have Gangers in Oregon.  Anyone want to help this young man out with some coaching?

John

[Guru]

Craig, Terry is right on with all he said.Major collapse before release!

 No push/pull....instead of your bow and release hand going away from each other,they're coming together before you release and then causing a violent reaction the other way after release.

You seem to draw the bow easy enough.I think you are conciously releasing hence you're anticipating

 Since you're left handed like me,take a look at these clips.I'm certainly not saying I have perfect form,but it works for me. Notice the relaxed smoothness at and after release.....hope it helps.....

 http://tradgang.com//noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000031

[AkDan]

a relatively simple way to fix a collapse or creeping is to think about your elbow and nothing else.   Concentrate on driving that elbow back throughout the process including your release, everything else will start to come in line (though maybe not alignment that'll be something you'll have to work on seperately). You can use this on a pull through release as well as a dead release.  

By thinking about your elbow you are really training yourself to use your back muscles throughout the shot and by continously pulling that elbow back you are constantly pushing forward through the hole game.   You'll get your push pull, you'll loose your collapse, it will/should help with yoru form over all.  This is just the beginning!!!  Learn to relax everything but your string, then again on the bow side, just relax, as was said you look awfully tense!!!!  

And I'd highly second the shooting for form.   SPend weeks at it if possible.  Takes a few days to get your thinker thinking positively or just whats happening (getting comfortable with it), then on to where you can identify what you are doing, make the decision where its right or wrong and fix it.  You'd be amazed at how fast you come around!!!!

Your stance kinda looks funny too, maybe kick your back leg out (forward) slightly?   Dunno hard to tell in the angle, might just be trickery.  Looks like a closed stance though the way things are in both videos.   Mock draw once.  Pick a spot somewhere to "aim" at, go through the motions of drawing without the bow, come to full draw and look down, see where your back foot is at.   Mine is right below my draw hand, front foot would be at the 11 oclock.

[John D]

A4C, Just a suggestion, so far what everyone is saying is true, Terry is right on, but you are on a site where you may get a whole lot of opinions, each one has their own way, to a point. I would suggest, to get someone that can be there in person. That can stand behind you , on the side of you , and coach you on the spot, this way they can tell you exactly,what you are doing wrong, and correct it right now. I'm not saying doing it on the Trad Gang is wrong, nor am I saying thier replys are wrong. Great group of people, and very helpful, but I think someone in person would be a great help. GOOD LUCK, John

[Arrow4Christ]

Sorry about the bad light in this last vid...I feel like the form is a lot better...Still need to work a little on the release and my elbow (my bow arm goes where it goes). I think that'll get fixed quick though...what do you guys think?

[Al Dean]

It looks like you come to full draw then arch your head and shoulders back slightly before release.  I wouldn't think this additional movement would be a good thing.  I may be dead wrong, just an opinion.

[snag]

Hi Craig, I think it is time for the blindfold! Get up close to your target...real close. Close your eyes and concentrate on relaxing, drawing back to anchor, and releasing, hold the bow after release and see if moved.  Keep doing this until you feel smooth and deliberate. You seem to be anticipating the release. Your release should just happen. You don't want to be thinking, "Ok, now I'm going to release!" That's where you can get in trouble with target panic and getting jumpy.   So, hold the bow, relax, draw to anchor, release...When you start back opening your eyes don't be too concerned with where the arrow hits. Be aware of your form and release. When it starts feeling more natural and smooth then go for accruacy.   Oh, by the way make sure you have a good back drop when shooting with your eyes closed! Don't want to shoot the neighbors horse. Good luck. Is that the Border you're shooting?

[Arrow4Christ]

You guys are right...I am DEFINITELY saying, "Ok, now release!"...is the "eyes closed" method the best way to practice that? cause its hard for me not to. yes that's the Border...

[Guru]

Craig, I see in another post that your 340's aren't stiff enough and you're looking for 300's.What kind of poundage are you shooting, point wt, and how long are your arrows?  I have a feeling this might be part of your problem....

.... you need to push with your bow and instead of creeping forward at your anchor point(starting to collapse), you need to keep pulling back thru your anchor.

[Arrow4Christ]

The bow is 61# pulled to 29.5"...the point weight is 200 grains with a 31" arrow (I foot them with aluminum shafting so I have to leave them a little long.) bareshafted they are weak.

[Arrow4Christ]

what do you suggest I do to stop releasing conciously? I tell myself when I get to full draw "RELEASE!" and that's when my bow arm moves. It's tough for me to stop doing that. Suggestions?

[snag]

Craig, keep those back muscles pulling together through the release...don't collapse them. Like Curt said pull through the shot. Push with bow arm, pull with string hand.