How can I improve? (form Video)

[BLACK WOLF]

Having proper back tension is essential in achieving a good release....which can be done with either a dynamic or static release.

A good release is generally harder to achieve with a static release when compared to a dynamic release where the hand moves in a linear direction with the line of pull on the bowstring.

There's a reason why the majority of Olympic archers shoot with a dynamic release.

The key is finding what best works for you.

Ray  

[SHOOTO8S]

Good points Ray, but I'm still wondering whats the time difference to get off an accurate shot between a swing draw and set arm draw? Enough to change whats working for you? Bowhunterinchile mentioned he was happy with his shooting and form.

[cvarcher]

Black Wolf has it right.Enough to change whats working for you ?-for some yes for others hardly I guess. Its really up to you to try. In one tournament I had to shoot against the clock at 5 animal targets at differant distances and stations.I forgot how it was scored but you got deductions if it took longer than a set time amount. Most everyone was deducted .I had 3 kills one wound and one miss in 18 seconds.Does that apply to real hunting. It sure can and did for me.Most of the time I have plenty of time from a stand or blind to draw smoothly and relaxed.But there are times you have seconds.I think J.Shultz describes this speed thing on his video.One other thing Id like to say and I know we can debate this over and over. There is too much proof in what Ive seen and heard from both Hill and John Shultz and some others to convince me that the anchor hand should stay as still close to the spot it released from as possible rather than pulling back to the shoulder as I sometimes see. I know you can adjust to shoot quite good that way or the other way where you fail to reach anchor but keep it all lined up .But When the chips are down and your up against the very best , I think thats where absolute solid form must be held to the tightest degree.I dont mean any disrespect to anyone ,but this is the way my eyes see it and the words of Hill and Shultz say it(books and video).I hold them in the highest regard.

[BLACK WOLF]

cvarcher,

Hill and Schultz are great archers to hold in high regard. Their style...at least the one that is taught by Shultz applies more specifically to hunting. I totally enjoyed Shultz's video and use it for my aerial shooting.

I wish there was some video of Hill actually competeing in a Field Event. I would be curious if his style changed with longer targets or when in tournament situations. I know he mentioned holding his bow more vertical for longer shots.

An archer needs to determine exactly what their goals and than research the styles that are best suited for those goals.

I personally use a dynamic release that only moves a few inches back from the corner of my mouth.

If you watch in slow motion in Shultz's video you can see his hand move reward after release and than move forward back to anchor.

The biomechanical reason why a static release is harder to achieve a good release is in the way the muscles contract, stabilize and relax in different stages through out the shooting process.

Ray  

[BLACK WOLF]

Rod,

Basically...the swing draw is faster to get to anchor when BOTH archers start with their bows at their side...because during the swing draw...the archer is already drawing the bow as he is raising it.

They should BOTH be the same when the set draw bow arm is already in place.

Now how fast they SHOOT is also dependent on how fast an archer aquires the correct sight picture.

Ray  

[SHOOTO8S]

Ray, that wasn't my question to either you or CV...

Bowhunterinchile posted....Posting my updated form videos for the people to see the improvments. For me this is my form and where I want to be. Not perfect but I am very happy with my shooting.

From his words, I dont think he was looking for advice on how to speed up his shot...so my question was...is there enough difference in speed between the swing draw and set arm draw, to insist to a guy who by his own words is pefectly happy with his shot, change ?

[Terry Green]

" There is too much proof in what Ive seen and heard from both Hill and John Shultz and some others to convince me that the anchor hand should stay as still close to the spot it released from as possible"

Let see....didn't we already hash this out just a couple of months ago???  Do we have to show the clips here on Trad Gang again and once again PROVE HH had a dynamic release???????  Do we????  Again????   :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:

[Terry Green]

HH \\'s DYNAMIC release thread....

[AllenR]

Originally posted by BLACK WOLF:



I wish there was some video of Hill actually competeing in a Field Event.

 

There is a video of Hill showing a young lady how to shoot field.  He demonstrated the strangest draw that I've ever seen.  He held his bow arm straight up over his head, drew the bow and then brought it down and established his anchor.  In this same video he also demonstrated the point of aim system.

This is very different from what Schultz teaches and what you see on most Hill videos.

The video doesn't say if he actually used these techniques in competition.  

From the videos that I've seen, Hill had such incredibly good hand eye coordination that he could probably shoot well using almost any form variation that we can come up with.  He's probably not the best roll model for a beginning or even intermediate archer to try to copy.

[BLACK WOLF]

Sorry Rod,

I thought you're question was posted to the general public. I didn't see it addressed to anyone specific so I honestly thought I would try to answer it for you.

I'm wondering now if your ? was a rhetorical ? that you already had an answer for? I'm guessing from your experience...it might have been  

Either way...no problem...I was just trying to answer it for ya...in case you were really serious about wanting to know which one would be faster.

So to answer your new question...'to insist' he needs to speed up is in my opinion not really needed unless he was competeing in timed events.

Ray  

[Terry Green]

We also hashed out the swing draw/pre set just a couple of months ago.

Which is faster????  All depends, if you bow is already up, then the set arm could be faster now couldn't it???

Both swing and pre set are BOTH CORRECT...because they BOTH WORK.

And I think the bowhunters should be able to shoot BOTH WAYS if he wants to be versatile in the field.

  Re- Hash,  Corn beef n Hash, or for some; smokin hash

               

[Emmons]

I guess I will have to take some videos with a swing draw.  How you get the bow to anchor does not make a diference as long as your anchor and alignment are consistent.  The same holds true about canting the bow.  

I can not agree more with Terry, it is all about your alignment at release.  Going thru this process of improving my form, has proven that to me.  I no longer need a specific cant or foot position, etc. to make an accurate shot.  I vary my shooting position (sitting, standing, kneeling) and my cant often.  I also vary my drawing method (swing vs. set).  This is all done to simulate hunting conditions.

In respect to the release.  I have a hard time maintaining back tension with a static release.

I want to thank everyone for your suggestion and opinions.  

James

[Terry Green]

Sure thing James....hope to hunt with you someday.  

[BLACK WOLF]

Terry...you know how many times I've hashed and re-hashed what Instinctive Aiming is and how it truly exists as an applicable way to aim a bow and arrow...LOL...I'm sure you can relate  

Sometimes things just need to be repeated  

Ray  

[SHOOTO8S]

[Terry Green]

What's that Rod???? Couldn't hear ya.  

[SHOOTO8S]

 Terry, I decided that James thread didn't need to wander too far off topic and should be about all the hard work and improvment James has achieved.

Congrats James!

[BLACK WOLF]

Couldn't agree more    Congrads James! Keep up the good work!

Ray  

[Diamond Paul]

Chile: form looks sweet.  Paul.

[Emmons]

Took some new shooting video.  Form still need some work but I am not complaining.

 
I am shooting my 54" Morrison Cheyenne 66# @ 27", AD Traditionals with 250 gr. points, total arrow weight is 620 gr.  Was shooting at 20 meters or 22 Yards.  This is a typical group for me, four good arrows and one flier.

 

James