300FPS Egyptian Bows History Channel ?

[NoCams]

HI Guys,
Just finished watching History Channel on Egyptian composite horsebows and another bow that almost looked like a Shrew ! They claimed these bows could shoot 300FPS and were selfbows with horn nocks and leather composite limbs ? I say that is a crock, what say ye ??? By the way, the strings looked like they were about as big as ship mooring lines, haha !!! The show's host also made the statement that he was shooting a reproduction of an original and that it was not as good as an original. He was saying that we could not make a repro as good as the old bows, ( speed ). I find all this hard to believe ?   :confused:

[Shakes.602]

I just watched that!  AMAZING 18 Month Cure Time  for a Composite/Horn/Sinew Bow!!     And there was Hardly  ANY  Movement in that Bow when he Released that Arrow. Amazing, King Tut had a Fine Collection of the Bows Too. Not that they were doing Him any good at the Moment.  :rolleyes:    

[smoke]

Lucas Novatny (Saluki) made one that was very nice ~ really a work of art.  I don't know how fast it was but he mentioned that with light arrows some of the ancient bows might have shot 300 fps.  That seems incredible but I wouldn't be surprised if they went in the 220 range.

[Steve H.]

I started laughing when I saw the title to this thread.  Back in about 1996 I started a thread on the Bowsite, kinda picking on the techie-wheenies that were trying to trick their bows out to reach 300 FPS which wasn't common bak then, that 300FPS had been reached hundreds of year ago by a recurve! I recall one hot-headed techno-wheenie really getting his shorts in a bunch over this!

We know from history that some Turkish sultan shot an arrow over a thousand yards (I don't remember the exact distance at the moment).  If you make an assumption of arrow mass and assume that the arrow was shot at 45% which will give maximum distance, and do the math, you will see that the velocity would have had to have EXCEEDED 300 FPS!

It took some of the more braniac guys to figure the math.  So it all come down to history and math says it can be true!

[Bjorn]

And then there was a fella caller 'Icarus' wasn't an archer but a neat tale...................
we shouldn't expect truth from media anyway-it would spoil the story!

[MMilin]

Keep in mind, CHRONOGRAPHS were new technology back when the Pharoahs ruled, so don't take that 300fps claim as fact . . . those arrows may well have been in the low 290s.

Mark

[jdupre]

Those bows could have possibly shot 300 fps with tiny flight arrows but I doubt they could with any kind of effective war arrow. I did not realize how tiny flight arrows could be until I saw some in the Fred Bear Museum. The arrow,not the point, but the entire arrow weighed 75 grains!!

[bayoulongbowman]

Cool...I watched a show on Indian bows they hunted game with...about 35# maybe..

[Van/TX]

He was saying that we could not make a repro as good as the old bows, ( speed ). I find all this hard to believe ?  

I tend to believe that.  And also that the old flight bows shot over 300 fps....Van

[NoCams]

Guys,
I understand that you can get lots more speed with lightweight arrows, but how did they keep the bows from blowing up ? I have been taught that you do not go below 8gr per pound even with our modern glass bows or you risk the chance of blowing up a limb ?

nocams

[buck-tamer00]

what would the draw wieghts have to be to be able to shoot that fast!?!??

[SamuraiWarrior2]

Adam Karpowicz has done testing on Turkish bows in the 100+ lbs of draw weight and with flight arrows, 300fps seems reasonable to hit.  You only need 2.3-3gr/lb to hit that speed.  
 http://atarn.org/islamic/Performance/Performance_of_Turkish_bows.htm
With a 203 gr arrow, he hit 357fps with a 125lb hornbow.

[NoCams]

Van,
What is a flight bow ? Is this where they shot bows at the sky and just showered the infranty with arrows, like in the movies ? What string materials did the Egyptians use ? How could they get that speed with strings that looked like ropes ? Again, if they shot light arrows to get that much speed, then how did the bows hold up ? I am from TN, but maybe my kin were from Missouri, " The show me state ", haha

nocams

[buck-tamer00]

didnt use somthin like sinew for thier strings???

[NorthShoreLB]

Most likely linen strings.

[NY Yankee]

You can't believe everything you see on TV

[Luke Vander Vennen]

NoCams: I believe that they can't make a reproduction bow as good today as they could back then. Their bows back then meant a lot more to them than just something to do for fun like they are now. A warriors life would often depend on his bow. I think I recall hearing somehwere that if a warriors bow snapped in battle he would be beheaded. Mind you I'm in no way an expert or anything on this stuff, this is all stuff I just picked up in passing.

The workmanship that went into those bows was incredible. The 18 month curing period was to allow the hide glue and sinew to fully cure. Sienw DRIES much faster than that, but it CURES over a long amount of time.  A sinew backed selfbow will continue to gain a bit of weight (just a bit mind you) over several months. Those bows were under so much pressure that regular glue lines would not hold it all together. The glued surfaces were grooved in mirror images so the glue would have a greater surfave area to attach to. The grooves looked kinda like this on one face, and the opposite on the other: /\\/\\/\\/. If I remember correctly the limbs were wrapped at several points along their length. I guess this helped hold them together.

Remember I'm just an information junkie, rather than an expert in anything.

[mmgrode]

Wish I could have caught that show. Sounds like a good one. Yes Luke, I've also heard it was VERY important that the bows stayed together in combat. The bowyers for the Mongols would be killed if the bow broke during battle. I suppose that would give you a good incentive to take your time! It does seem hard to believe that these bows wouldn't explode from the high stress on the limbs from the low flight arrow weight, however, some of these contained horn for a belly material which may have helped. Just my own 2 cents. Grodes

[MMilin]

Was there any indication that the archery portion of the program was overseen by a recognized archery expert?

TV shows with a claimed historical basis may contain a statement that WWII infantrymen carried x-number of BULLETS --- not cartridges or rounds --- into battle. Now, how can you take anything  seriously from such a segment?

I remember reading of Civil War sharpshooters who, it was claimed, routinely picked-off the enemy at ranges of 700-800 yards and more. (Complete and utter nonsense with weapons of that era.)

Is it hard to believe that this program included some reckless figures?

Mark

[Todd Hathaway]

300 fps? Not impossible at all. You can get that kind of speed from a longbow. Just depends on how much weight ya wanna pull.

Here's an old Popular Science Article stating that Howard Hill shot his 800 grain arrows at 300 fps.
   Article