Why does the swing draw work?

[Deadeye33]

I am experimenting with different shooting styles Gap shooting, pure instinctive, and swing draw instinctive.  I understand the logic behind gap and purely instinctive shooting but tonight I had the most success with the  swing draw shooting.  I was amazed since my bow arm barely settled before the arrow was released.  Any theory on why this  works?

[2Blade]

Id like to hear about this. Post up guys TTT

[Kingstaken]

Welcome aboard to pure and simple instinctive shooting.  

[Incognito]

Shoot the swing method side by side with someone like Rod Jenkins and you will see which is the most accurate way to shoot.

[McDave]

I attended a seminar with Fred Asbell, and he believes the swing draw method is better because it keeps the arrow out of your vision.  He believes that if the arrow is in your vision, you will divert some of your attention to it, and it is better if 100% of your attention is focused on the target.

[JBiorn]

yup

[Deadeye33]

McDave,
That makes a lot of sense!  I think I'm going to shoot that style from now on.  Is it also good for distance shooting?

[southpawshooter]

Shoot the swing method side by side with someone like Rod Jenkins and you will see which is the most accurate way to shoot.

Incognito

Very well said, especially if we're talking about a swing draw combined with a snap anchor.  The best shooters I have seen have a controlled shot cycle.  The swing draw can work at close range but cannot be as accurate as a more measured shot.  With everything in motion repeatibility is difficult.  Very, very few people can control that type of shot cycle for consistent accuracy.  If the swing draw was all that, you'd see the best archers in the world using it.  Ever see a swing draw in the Olympics???

[gobbler10ga]

I also worry that its too much movement on a deer

[woodchucker]

Please Be CAREFULL!!!!!

I shot purely instinctive for many years (and still do) Several years ago,I read an artical by Dennis Kamstra in Traditional Bowhunter magazine about Snapshooting/Swingdraw shooting. It worked GREAT!!!!!

However.....Later on it lead to a BUNCH of problems,all basicly associated with "target panic". Most of the problems are related to not hitting my anchor point,or a pre-mature/sloppy release. I used to draw,anchor,hold for 10-30 seconds while I focused on my "spot",then I would release,(a super SMOOTH release BTW) and follow through,

NOW, Most times my "brain" tells my fingers to release wether I'm on target or not. If I hit my anchor point and try to dig in,and hold it,I throw my release or pluck the string,giving me a REAL sloppy release!!!!!

Now I'm not saying this will happen to you,but please,proceed carefully.

[last arrow]

My experience is similiar to Woodchuckers.  That doesn't mean you will have the same problems but you need to be aware.  If you are not careful - over time the act of pointing with your bow hand at the target will trigger your release, whether you are anchored, at full draw, or whatever.  Its a "conditioned response"  Jay Kidwell explains it very well in his posts and book.

Woodchucker, go to Jay Kidwells target panic post (or get his book) and follow his advice,you can be back in control of your release.

[henpeckedmuch]

Same problem but, I think it also had to do with starting out with too heavy of a bow. I was trying to hold a 60lb. Hill style bow and pick a spot. I tried the swingdraw method after hurting my shoulder doing it the other way. And, it worked well for awhile, but then everything went bad. Now I have a lighter bow #45 and am trying to break myself of all the bad habits I learned early on. The chant in my head now is "hold-back tension-release.

[Terry Green]

I think the bowhunter should be able to shoot many ways, and the swing draw is just another shot that should be in the trick bag.

Target archers don't 'need' a swing draw, but bowhunters sure can use it at times.

HH swung draw on a lot of animals.....and he was accurate.  Lots of guys I've hunted with I've watched swing draw with precise accuracy on animals.

I swung drew on a goat last week....sure worked for me.  I've also held my bow pointed at at a deer for 2 or 3 minutes while he looked at me, and drew as he turned away......that worked as well.

Practice both ways, and you'll be more versatile  as a bowhunter.

[GroundHunter]

Ok, the swing draw (snap shooting) works, because it works.

The only folks who can criticize the form are those who sucessfully shoot it. The rest haven't done it yet. They can theorize why some other method "has' to be better, or try to explin why it didn't work for them. But until you've done it, you haven't done it. If you see someone do it, you will be shocked and amazed and change your thinking, even if it's you who you see do it behind the arrows you send true to the spot in a nice tight group when you try it 'cause it's not hard.

But, Deadeye, you and I have shared the experience of discovering to our amazement that we could hit what we shot at handily and casually with the simple, seeming uncontrolled, loose, dynamic move of a swing-draw-release-on-achor. A lot like the videos of John Schultz or Byron Ferguson shooting the tossed aspirin. 'Zackly how you shoot a tossed aspirin, by the way.

I posted pix of a 33/32's group I shocked my self by shooting that way, and have repeated often just swinging up, and drawing a line on the spot, releasing on the line as I passed anchor, still pulling through the shot. It's the secret to dead-eye quick hunting shots. I think these are posted under an old thread on "snap shooting" in this forum.

Works with a 58# Tomahawk and a 73# Howard Hill Black Bear. Works pretty well with a 50% Martin Rebel Recurve. Bet it works wih a Korean bow.

Here's why I think it works for them as try it:

1. It's a rythm/form/vision thing that your mind repeats  astonishingly consistently. eye/hand/body-laguage thing?

2. Your vision, timing and pulling through the shot gets you on the spot, drawing a line to the spot with all focus on your spot, and no time or stopping or dsitractions to throw you off that line to the focused spot.

3. it works.

[Terry Green]

Groundhunter......yep...and HH was a snap shooter too.  Just check the clips of HH on this site.

Snap shooting was given a negative term by those that don't shoot that way, or don't understand how it works IMO.  

Target panic is not snap shooting.  Target panic is a mental problem/issue not related to a shooting style.  I've snap shot a bunch of critters, and I've never had target panic.  If snap shooting lead to target panic, I'd have had it long ago.

[Kingstaken]

Agreed Terry..Snap shoting does not allow enough time for panic to set in.  Panic sets in while holding too long. IMO.

[SteveMcD]

The key to successful shooting is the sum of all the parts in the shot process: focus, stance draw, release and follow through. You cannot concentrate on any more than one thing at a time. If the form is consistent, just focus on the shot. Be mindful of the mechanics but focus on the shot. Jay Kidwell's book, Instinctive Archery Insights... well worth the investment.

[mike g]

I for one think that Snap shooting and Swing draw are two differant animals....
    Snap shooting people usualy don't reach anchor and have no form.
    Swing draw, has form, your bow arm is steady thru the shot and you pull thru anchor....You use good form....
    Some people think HH snap shoots, he didn't he used Swing draw....He just did it quick.
    I just hate it when people confuse the two.
Sorry just my opinon....

[estacado]

After Shultz's video I was a dedicated swing shooter. Amazing shootin for awhile, then the snap shooting at the speed of light set in. Couldnt slow it down to save my life. I had the tendency to swing up above the aim point(target)
and had to bring the bow hand down to make it feel right. Over shot  alot of targets, finally had to quit or quit archery. Start now with the bow arm extended toward the target, few overshoots.

The swing draw also forces a commit at the start of the swing, the animal moves, virtually impossible to stop the shot. I can let down if it doesnt feel right with the set arm. Shot that way well before Shultz with bows up to 70#. I am in recovery from being the fastest snapshooter on the planet. Focus on the target and follow thru are now my main worries. My form is solid and am shooting with little conscious reference, I can group and hit out to point on that way. Beyond that I use a split vision reference which works OK on balloons at 40yards.

Estacado

[Terry Green]

Mike,

Yep....snap shooting and swing drawing are two different things....and IMO have nothing to do with form, good or bad....its only a style.

HH was a snap shooter, who also used the swing draw.  There are clips of both examples on this site. He had good form and proper alignment.  

The guy that taught me to shoot when I was 8 hunted with HH and called him a snap shooter...back in those days, from the way he describes it, snap shooting did not have a negative term....the negative term was brought about only in recent years by those that have suffered target panic.  That's why I refer to HH as a snap shooter.

estacado,

"The swing draw also forces a commit at the start of the swing, the animal moves, virtually impossible to stop the shot."

Not for those that are in control of their shot.  That's like saying a basketball player committing to a jumpshot can't pass when he sees a wide open team mate under the basket.  I've let down on swing draws plenty of times....rabbits and hogs.