how do the best shots shoot?

[KyleAllen]

We shot the asa shoot in paris,tx this past weekend. It was an eye opener to say the least. There were some boys there that could sure enough shoot a recurve i mean to tell ya. Hek one guy shot a 198 on 20 targets!!! Thing is, all the guys who shot "the best" did not shoot instinctive. They all shot "point of aim". They would anchor so that they were sighting right down their arrow and they shot with the bow vertical. Pretty much....they aimed. I dont care for this style at all, but they dominated with it. Im no slouch shot myself. Hek i think i out scored everyone that shot instinctive, but we just couldnt hang with those other boys. Do all the guys who win tournaments shoot like this?  
Kyle

[twotimer]

i do,we just shot the indoor ncfaa state championship here in n.c. the 9th,10th and 11th of this month.nfaa 300 and vegas 300,our club took 6 state championships in different classes,4 in traditional,adult,senior,master senior,and barebow,3 of us shoot point of aim,my friend who took the adult trad division is the only one who shoots instinctive.so it says something for the style,3 of us out of 4.i shot instinctive for a long time,but started playing around with point of aim and there was no looking back.i wonder how many of those old boys were shooting 3 under? the only drawback to the style is a little loss of performance because of the forward creep,but if its an animal and you can knock its eye out at 20 yards it don't matter.  

[KyleAllen]

they ALL shot three under. I just personally dont care for the style. I feel you loose something by shooting that way. But thats just me. Cant argue with the fact that it seems to be far more accurate.

[Incognito]

Kyle, what is it that you feel you loose?

[twotimer]

i,like incog. am wondering what you find so offensive- ,please don't take offense,i don't mean any thing derogatory-,about the style.like i stated,you lose a little perforance ie speed,maybe 4 or 5 fps,from the forward creep.plus instinctive shooters might have a little advantage on a fast moving animal.but my friend,if anything makes ma a better archer,i will try to overcome any hurdles in front of me,to achieve that goal.JMHO.best regards,robert  

[Tom A]

The answer is no not all the people that win tournaments shoot like that. Some of the top competition shooters I know use a subconcious/instinctive aiming method. This is for 3D though. I doubt many long distance instinctive shooters can hang with a point of aim system.

[KyleAllen]

i guess what i believe you loose is the "romance" of it all. To me, there is something so pure about picking a spot and feeling everything line up the shot subconsciously. Everyone who shot point of aim would walk up to the stake, look through there binocs, look through them some more, stare at the target, come to full draw, aim, and release. I supose it just reminds me too much of shooting a compound. Im in no way trying to down anyone who shoots this way and as i have stated previously, it seems to be a superior method for target shooting. I just personally dont care for it.
Kyle

[2Blade]

I agree Kyle I believe a stickbow should be shot instinctively but I dont care how anyone shoots really as long as their shooting good but that is my opinion im not trying to offend anyone cause their are some great shooters like Byron Ferguson but then again Frank Addington JR is an awesome and he shoots instinctive so it all boils down to what you want.

[Terry Green]

I hear ya Kyle......

Like the difference in scoped hi-powered rifle shooting and shot gunning for birds.

Anyone else remember the Olympic gold medalist that went hunting on a TV show and missed his 1st two or three deer?  I do.

[Molson]

I don't see much difference between using a sight pin for a sight and using the point of an arrow for the sight. You are right on Kyle.

[Incognito]

OK, I understand now.

[JRY309]

They are target shooters.In the IBO rules for traditonal class,is longbow only,you have to shoot split finger,riser at least 1/8" off center,wood arrows,no face walking.For recurves it was called recurve unaided,but there you compete with the aluminum risers,carbon limbs,any type of arrow,3 under or split.Hard for a traditional wooden recurve to compete in that class.

[sndmn11]

whats so wrong with 3 under?  i shoot this way because it gives me the best release and is the more consistent way for me.  i also shoot by picking a spot and giving it a go. not picking a fight because i havent been at this for more than a year, but what is wrong with shooting 3 under?  a couple of you have mentioned it.

[Molson]

It's nothing against 3 under.  Lots of people shoot 3 under gap or instinctive.  This is more about why you choose to shoot traditional gear.  It's really not even about point of aim.  There's an innocence (so to speak) that's lost when scores outweight the satisfaction of a well placed shot that "just happens".  It's a difficult thing to explain.  Kyle described it as "romance" and he is absolutely correct. The whole history, attraction, and self-statisfaction just seems lost when you put a score to it.

[Starkman]

Kyle,
I noticed the same thing here (Arkansas).  But hey, if it allows a person to shoot better, then why not.  My opinion is that some of these 3-D shoots are getting so competitive its almost no fun anymore.  Usually, its the same group of guys in the state, and I guess it is very important for them to win a trophy.  I've seen guys throw their bows, cheat and act like spoiled brats because they've missed shots.  However, that is usually the exception.  I've become very particular in the shoots I attend.  Toss the scorecard & have fun.
Bob

[John57]

I shot a 3D competition last week end.
All the shooters that placed highly shot point of aim or some veriation of it.
During lunch I spoke with the guy that won the day,about his aiming method.
He told me he used point of aim but it was slighly different from the POA method I use myself.
After getting as much info as he was going to pass on the conversation turned to hunting and he mentioned that when hunting he often switched from POA to instinctive with out any thought or planning,much like I do myself.
So all in all a pretty good day,I placed 4th myself picked up some good tips and reinforced my longheld belief that POA and instinctive are so closly related it's going to be the archer that can recognise and utilise both that is always going to be the better archer in any given situation.
It often looks to me that people from both sides of what is a pretty stupid argument,seem to think the other guy "can't" use both methods.
A guy might prefer instinctive,he may prefer POA,but if your compeating against him it's a mistake to think he can't use both.
Because ALL the better shooters I've ever met, can!!

[Tom A]

JRY309

IBO allows 3 under. Those rules were changed a while ago.

[twotimer]

i stated i shot point of aim,3 under,to clear up my style i shoot point of aim,gap,and i was shooting a 50# longbow in the state championship,i'm 57 years old and holding 50#s for a couple of seconds is nothing like looking down a compound with a 15% let off.but i say,do what ever it takes to get the coon and have fun,to each his own,do what ever it takes to get you thru the day,its all archery.best regards,robert.N.C. 2007 senior traditional indoor state champion  

[Kingwouldbe]

WOW! is this for real? or are you just trying to psych me out.

Competition is good, it is, what makes it fun. don't you remember when you where a boy and you said to your best "friend race you to the water fountain" it was fun, and still is fun to compete.

The only reason I could think of why your not having fun, is, you keep getting spanked, and yes that would get old, but there is always someone who is better, faster, smarter etc... we must keep striving to get better.

People are people, all you have to do is watch any professional sporting event including the Olympics, you will see pros acting like idiots

Mr.Starkman, why do you keep your score? you don't have to keep your score, you can shoot and not keep score any time you like? why do you wont me, not to keep my score? I have a blast competing with others it's what drives us to get better.

How would you know if you where getting any better if you never kept your score, the score is only a way to measure your accuracy, the Competition  is with your self, the score only tells you how you measure up with the other competitors.

Mr.Starkman, George S. Patton Jr. would jet-slap you, for what you said. LOL      

KyleAllen, Sir I find this score of 198 out of 200  unbelievable, you are talking, TOP OLYIPIC GOLD MEDAL scores and if that's the case, you cant compete.

Most trad shooters can't hit the broadside of a barn if they where in it, it's a disgraces to traditional archery to see some of the scores people post, and that's at a 3D tournament where the target is not moving and you can take as much time as you like, vary little, if any adrenaline to mess with your head.

What I would love to see is, WE as a whole, would increase our accuracy and strive to be the best shot we possible can be, we owe it to the animals we hunt, they deserve a quick clean kill with a will placed shot into the spot your aiming at.

I am not looking for a fight, but this is just amazing to me, if you cant master instinctive shooting, maybe you should shoot with pins, it's OK, the instinctive police wont arrest you.

Please, don't use the excuse "I shoot instinctive  and that's why I suck as a shooter.

[2Blade]

Im not apposed to gap shooting or POA but will you really be as accurate in a hunting situation? Lets say you know your gap at 20-30 yards what if you misjudge the yardage and you think your animal is 20 yards but it could be 22 or 23 are you going to shoot lower possibly pulling a brisket shot? Or if your hunting something bigger then a deer you may hit over the lungs in a non vital spot this may seem unrealistic but the possibilities are there.

With smaller game like squirrels for me its harder to judge distance im not sure why but it is for me. Could someone shed some light on my opinion on the hunting distance with POA?