Paper Tuning a recurve

[bigcountry]

I know some on here does not like paper tuning trad bows.  But bareshaft doesn't work very well for me.  Maybe its my poor release, or poor grouping skills.  Everything shows stiff reaction.  So I paper tune.  Its worked for me for my longbow and a real light recurve I have.  Seems once I get perfect holes, I get best groups and flight.  I have also had limited luck broadhead tuning.  

Here's my issue.  I got a new Martin dream catcher 50#.  I draw around 29".  Here is the arrows I am trying.  I have 2216, which definately fly stiff according my paper tuning and bareshaft tuning.  Bad tear with fletch hitting right/tip left.  Nothing I do to the plate seems to fix this.  Ok, I try 2016 legacy.  Seem to fly good.  But high tear Fletch high/tip down.  I move my nock point up and down, and always get a high tear, Seems 3/4" high over center, I get best tear.  Same with my 60-65lb cedars.  Bare shafting the cedars I see the arrow fly with nock right tip left.  Seems to hit slightly to the left of tipped arrows. (thats stiff???) But these arrows are supposally weak for a recurve?

Here's my idea.  I think the 2016's and cedars are slightly weak spine, and no matter what I am getting slight high tear by either too high nock or feathers kicking up off shelf?  

Any ideas?  I might have to go out and buy 3 2018's.

[jhansen]

I've found that bare shaft planing doesn't work for me until I'm fairly close in tuning.  I start with paper tuning and go to bare shaft later.  

Nock left for a right handed shooter means weak spine so your cedars are doing the expected.  Cut them back or go to a lighter point.

Nock point up or down to control porpoising can be a real head-scratcher.  Go a bit too high and the arrow strikes the shelf and acts like the nock point is too low.  Too low and the arrow does the same thing.  Just to make things worse, how you put your fingers on the string and whether or not you pull equally from shot to shot also makes a difference.  Just for starters, try putting two nocksets on the string.  One above and one below the arrow.  Easton did some high-speed photography that showed arrows sliding down the string on release.  Then practice getting a deep hook and pulling equally with all three fingers for each shot.  You might try three-under.  I suspect that many people have better results with three-under because it causes you to pull more equally with your fingers.

Good Luck!
John

[bigcountry]

Thanks John, I was considering putting two nocks on there.  I thought about this.  Thanks,

I meant to say my nock on my cedars are right and tips left.  Stiff spine.

[bgram]

Have you tried to shoot cock feather in (if you are shooting 3 fletch)?  I know it shouldn't matter, but I've had a friend shoot oddly and turned the arrow around and had a whole lot better hole.  What John said about the nocks rings true also.  Just started using that little tip myself here in the last couple of months.

[bigcountry]

Another excellent idea.  Didn't think of that bgram

[bigcountry]

jhasen, your a genius.  Two nocking points and its shooting bullet holes.  Thanks a bunch.

[jhansen]

Glad it worked for you.      

John

[bigcountry]

actually after some more shooting, it seems both of you guys are right.  Some cedars I am still getting the high tear.  I turn the arrow with cock feather in, and back to shooting good.  What could that mean?  I figured spine too weak?  

These cedars shoot great in my 50# longbow.  So I figured in my 50# recurve, I need to go up on spine some.  I might cut a few of em to 29" and see how it works.

[bgram]

Might depend on the riser width.  With longbows, generally they take a spine down one step vs. a recurve of the equal poundage, at least from what I've heard.  With the recurve, maybe a longer shelf, more cut to center or past (causing the arrow to be to weak, might cause it to make fletch contact).  Longbows generally have smaller shelfs.  You can always take some baby powder and put on the recurve shelf, just a light coating and that might give you a clue, or better yet somebody watching you shoot from your side a hint of what the arrow is doing on release.  I ain't no expert by any means, but I'll toss ideas out to you as best as I can.

[jhansen]

Have you checked the grain orientation on the cedars?  The grain on all of them should be horizontal when lying on the shelf.  In other words, if you take off a point and look at the end of the shaft you will see that it has layers of wood.  The feathers and nock should be applied so that the layers lay parallel to the shelf.  If some shafts are set up with horizontal grain, some vertical, and some inbetween, the arrows will act like they have different spines.  Just a thought.

John

[bigcountry]

Thanks again.  I am going to cut down to 29" and see what happens.