Your opinion re trad shoot competition classes....

[TSP]

Hi, all.  Looking for opinions here.  Which of the following (A or B) would you think makes more sense for an annual 'traditional championship' shoot?  Basic overall rule is no compounds.  Primitive class is the same for either approach.

APPROACH A.....Longbow, Recurve and Primitive classes.  The first two allow any arrow and any non-compound bow.  No sights.

                  or  

APPROACH B....Target, Hunter and Primitive classes.  Hunter class requires arrows weighing at least 10 gr/ lb. of draw weight, bows with non adjustable limbs, and no mechanical rests.  Target class would basically be 'everything else'.

For Approach B only the eventual class winners would have their arrows weighed...otherwise its the honor system on arrows.  To check arrow weight the bow weights are assumed to be whats marked on the bow.

So, which approach do you think would be best for a championship trad shoot, and why?        

[Deadeye]

When talking arrow weight you will lose a lot of shooters.I for one won't be there.

[BigRonHuntAlot]

I would think the A option will draw more shooters. Some guys cant even tell you how much their arrows weigh...

[Donnie]

"A" sounds a lot less complicated.  Pretty straight forward.  No frills... limits are obvious for a "Traditional Shoot".  I think it will draw a good number of folks.

To me... "B" is borderline "splitting hairs".  Target archers usually compete in "Target Matches", not Traditional Shoots.  I think a lot... if not most "Primitive Archers" would consider themselves "Bowhunters".   And as far as "Arrow Weight"... who really cares.  Once an archer sets his bow up... just like Ron mentioned... most don't know, nor do they care about their arrow weight.  This alone could eliminate a lot of potential "fun seekers".

For example... some fella might have a wife who couldn't participate simply because she can not pull a hunting weight bow.  The bow that she goes out and shoots with her husband is only 25# and she is only shooting 300 a gn. arrow. So... if she cant participate... why would the husband want too?  

Also... when you start counting grains... ya kinda fall into that "What is Traditional" category.  Next thing ya know someone is crying because someone else is shooting a carbon arrow, or carbon backed limbs.  Most everyone seems pretty comfortable with "No wheels, and No Sights".  Just keep in mind that no matter what you do... someone aint gonna be happy.  So... try to make it "Fun" for the majority!

I would attend your first approach.  Sound more fun!

Donnie

[Starkman]

I've shot in several shoots where the classes are,
recurve, modern longbow, longbow, selfbow.  Modern longbow is for folks who shoot aluminum and carbon arrows.  How the course is set may determine if it is realistic to hunting situations or if it favors target archers (i.e. wide open broadside shots).  
Bob

[Blue Moose]

A.

[Matt E]

I think the long bow class should be wood only, just to stay close to traditional as possible.

[tamure]

A sounds better to me. I agree about the splitting hairs thing.

Here, it is generally:
Recurve means any recurve OR longbow, and arrows out of any material. No sights or release of course, and no stabilizers.

Longbow means any longbow, and wood arrows only. Again, of course, no sights, etc.

So if you want to shoot carbons or alums out of your longbow, you can, but you have to register in the "recurve" class.

As for primitive, I've only ever been to one shoot that had primitive for a class, and I don't know what the requirements were, but I figured my take-down pronghorn wouldn't fit!   :p   To me, that makes me think self bow, or maybe a laminate but with little or no rest, and wood arrows only.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

"A" sounds better to me. Personally, I never understood why some shoots require wood arrows in the longbow class. I could understand for a primitive class, but other than that it never made any sense to me.

[JRY309]

3 classes that would be (1)longbow only,wood arrows,shoot split finger
(2)recurve,any type of arrow,split or 3 under
(3)primitive,selbows,no glass,wood arrows
No sights in any class thes are some basic rules for a fair competition.But also you can shoot want you like say longbow with carbon arrows just don't turn in a score just shoot for yourself satisfaction and have fun.

[woodchucker]

I have to say that I go to a GREAT shoot every year.....

"The White Mountain Traditional Bowhunters Rendezvous" in New Hampshire

They have 3 classes.....

Primative - Wood self-bow shooting wood arrows

Traditional Wood - Any recurve or longbow shooting wood arrows

Traditional Open - Any recurve or longbow shooting any type of arrow material

NO SIGHTS are allowed in any class,there is also a  Womens Open,and 2 youth classes (under 10 and 10 - 16)

I shoot a hybrid R/D longbow,However.....I prefer to shoot wood arrows. I also have several 1960's Bear recurves that I like to shoot. Personaly I believe that arrow material is a bigger factor in performance than bow type/design.

Just one old guy's thoughts.....

[TSP]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.  

By the way, the reason for the proposed departure from the conventional Recurve/Longbow class setup is threefold:

1.)  The performance difference between most longbows and recurves today isn't nearly what it used to be...the former have caught up due to design changes, R/D,, etc.; and

2.)  Modern barebow target gear (target-style adjustable bows, new materials and very light arrows) logically give a 3-D scoring advantage over normal trad huntinmg bows and mid to heavyweight hunting arrows, the norm for most shooters; and

3.)  Since this wouldn't be a 'just for fun' shoot (annual state championmship...a competition) it seems logical to pay more attention to what gear is used to try and promote fair competition.

Anyway, your opinions are appreciated.  Keep them coming...some of the ideas are pretty interesting and it'll offer more food for thought on what makes a good championship trad shoot.    

[estacado]

Set your classes anyway you see fit. They key for any shoot is to draw participants. Exclude people and you leave participants out. We are talking traditional/stickbow now, everyone comes for different reasons. If the prize means that much to you by all means make it really restrictive. The majority of us go to have fun, let us. I dont win many shoots, one in the last 10 years, two shooters. I still go and compete in the class/es that the promoters allow me to shoot in. I have shot everthing except primative
in the past. I shoot a Dalaa this week something else next week. Allow me some fun by having a class for me to shoot in with my stickbow, be it a selfbow or a FITA Recurve(off the shelf of course).

The only time anyone carps about equipment is local shoots. The deer dont care and the game department wants it to be legal. The Big Shoots we will go and compete under the rules stated.
If you dont like the rules/classes you dont shoot. Compounders cant shoot at Hickory this weekend, rules are rules for the State Traditional shoot. Simple is as simple does.

Estacado

[SteveB]

"A" would be my choice as well
Steve

[Tom A]

2.) Modern barebow target gear (target-style adjustable bows, new materials and very light arrows) logically give a 3-D scoring advantage over normal trad huntinmg bows and mid to heavyweight hunting arrows, the norm for most shooters

What you see as a target bow and target arrow. Others may see as top of the line hunting bow with a fast arrow. I dont want to get into the whole arrow weight debate but if the bow is legal for hunting in your state you should not consider it a target bow.

[TSP]

I can understand that folks have their own personal opinions about differences between target and hunting equipment, sometimes strong ones.  Thats fine.  But if posting a response to the initial question please simply answer the question without attitude or condecension.  I'm just trying to sample whether competitive classes based on differences in arrow weight and/or arrow/bow technology might be more accepted by participants than differences based on the general recurves/longbows approach.  Please don't make it into more than that.        

[eagle24]

I like "A".  I think arrow weight opens the door for controversy and would be a headache.  Bottom line....I go to shoots to compete with myself.  When I'm done I decide if I'm happy or not with my score.  Never been to a trad shoot that I did'nt have a ball.  Can't say the same for when I shot compounds.

[hormoan]

A

     All the gear in the world won't make you the best shooter. The most expensive either. I will bet 99% of us don't go to a shoot to win. We go to be with our fellow stick shooters, and have a fun day. And I will also bet, 99% of us do just that. I could care less if the guy shooting with my group is shooting a Hoyt GM, with a springy rest and a short stabilizer. If thats what he wants to shoot, have at it. He will probably shoot a little better than off a shelf. But if only he has done his home work. But if he is not as good as you or me, he is still going to get beat.

I go to have a fun day with my friends. Not the Olympics.

                   Brent  

[SteveB]

Tom A seemed to answer the "why" part of the question.

I would not attend a shoot with "B" rules for the reasons he gave. Someone could be shooting a 540gr arrow and be put in the target class cause he shoots a 60 lb bow.

JMO

Steve


Steve

[chuckbowhunter]

I vote for A but also hope you have a guest class for someone to shoot something different.  I shoot tournaments with my hunting bow with quiver and arrows attached.  This is illegal in our California shoots but I don't care as I just shoot in guest class and am not eligible for any awards.  I would vote for letting as many people shoot as possible.  I don't care about awards, just practicing for hunting season.