What is a good MOA for a recurve?

[HumbleHunter]

John, I agree man.
Doublegun, Howdy!
I am still new to trad also so, please take what I say with a grain of salt.

I've been shooting trad for probably 7 or 8 months. I asked the same question and I got a easy cut answer. Lets say you were shooting at something similar to a music CD. Aim for the very center, focus as best you can on every shot, work on form, have a tuned bow and arrow set up, try to hit the center, but if you keep it in the entire CD at all your ranges, you're doing good.

Thats what I was told (give or take) and I really like it. Me, I can get in a rut of putting so much pressure on myself that it's not even fun, I get frustrated, and end up shooting worse then if I was just relaxed.

I've been dealing with some shoulder problems the last few months so I haven't shot a whole lot and I'm not as good as I was. But I'm not worried about it, I'll get it back, hopefully quicker now that I'm getting a lighter bow.

Anyway the biggest part for me is to keep it fun, keep focused, don't get discouraged.

Have a great day, HH

[JoeK]

Makes me think of Ishi.  He couldn't shoot paper to save his life.  But what his life did depend on he could hit with proper accuracy. I never could understand guys who got the shakes shooting at game.    I guess they can't figure out why I don't feel that calm shooting at paper.

[Diamond Paul]

I'm confused about what you mean by MOA when referring to a bow.  With a bells and whistles target compound, I would expect to hit the "X" ring on an indoor target (size of a half dollar?) about every time (58-59 out of 60).  I would expect to shoot 2" groups at 40 in good conditions, maybe 1" at times.  I can't hit a paper plate every time at 20 with a recurve, and haven't seen very many people that could.  I would say that when you feel confident that you can hit a paper plate most times at a given distance, then you should move back and work on doing it at that distance.  Very, very few traditional shooters can keep 8 of 10 arrows in a plate at 30 yards.  No traditional shooter can even come within hailing distance of a good compound shooter at any range when TARGET SHOOTING, but hunting is a whole different ball-game.

[Diamond Paul]

P.S.- Not trying to pump up the compound shooting or anything, just trying to say that your expectations with a trad. bow should not be quite as high.  I quit shooting target archery because, even though I was good at it, I wasn't enjoying it.  I can't shoot targets as well with my recurve, but it's fun.  I would think that 30 yards is a pretty long shot with any traditional bow when hunting.

[Dave Worden]

Doublegun, welcome back from the dark side.  As to accuracy out to 30 yds, I believe you can do that by fall, IF you practice a LOT.  I'd say probably 5 to 7 days a week and twice a day.  Your sessions shouldn't be too long, 20-30 arrows and 30 may be pushing it, but you'll need lots of sessions.  You are developing hand-eye coordination and muscle memory and that only happens with practice.  Remember too, that that the hand-eye and muscle memory will also develop with bad practice, so be sure to practice good form and focus (I mean FOCUS) for each shot.  If you just shoot arrows you'll plateau early and not at the accuracy level you desire.  Now as to hunting out to 30 yds, I wouldn't consider it even if I could hit a quarter 10 out 10 at 30 yds.  There is too much time for an animal to move before the arrow gets there, changing a kill shot to a gut shot.  Just not worth it.  I know this is not you, but for that want to kill at long range, get a gun!  The whole idea in trad hunting is to get close.  That being said, I have killed a rabbit at in excess of 30 yds, but heck, you can just about scare a rabbit to death.  Point here is, if you hit a rabbit anywhere you're likely to kill it.  You only have a small area on a deer where you're likely to kill it.  So, in a nutshell, practice hard or better yet practice well, get accurate out to 30 and hunt to 20 and you'll do fine and have a great time.

[calgarychef]

No one will answer your question and no one ever does answer this one.  I think people are ashamed of ther skill/lack of it.  If I can shoot 6 inches at 25 yards with six arrows I'm happy.  Anything inside of a foot at 30 yards is nice too.  I wouldn't shoot a deer at 30 yards but I might take a poke at a moose-because the target is a lot bigger.


the chef

[GroundHunter]

I may be wrong about this, but I think my HH longbow and POC arrows shoot 1"MOA as equipment. That is to say the bow and arrow is capable of that tight accuaracy. I say this because, when I'm "on", I can hit a tennis ball or a bottlecap sized bull at 20 yards, on purpose.

I've done that, and even shot 1" groups at 16 yards. I'm not bragging 'cause I don't shoot that well all the time. But the tackel will do it.

That's why Howard Hill and Byron Ferguson demonstrated such amazing shots. They were shooting as well as the bow and arrow, consistently. Are aerial aspirins MOA?

My practice goal is to shoot as well as my bow.

That is one reason I don't spend all that much time on tuning. If my arrows are decent and properly spined, brace height in guideline, they fly straight, and when I'm "on" - they go MOA - even 4" at 40 yards.

Now I'm talking instinctive snap-shooting, like John Schultz demontrates in his Hitting "Em Like Howard Hill dvd.

The key is to shoot as well as your bow.

[jhansen]

"I may be wrong about this, but I think my HH longbow and POC arrows shoot 1"MOA as equipment."  

Well, first of all I think we should define "MOA".  It stands for "minute of angle" and calculates out to 1" at 100 yards.  That would be 1/2" at 50 yards and something less than 1/4" at average hunting distance of 20 yards.  It's generally a rifle term.  Anyone who can shoot a bow that well please stand up.     But I think what GroundHunter is trying to say is that his bow is more accurate than he is although this statement makes me wonder:

"That is one reason I don't spend all that much time on tuning."

GH is one lucky man if his bow/arrow combo matched up to perfection without considerable tuning, especially since he is shooting cedars.  Any arrow that porpoises or fishtails to any degree will not group well.  Maybe his HH longbow is a lot more forgiving than the ones I've owned.  Mine were pretty sensitive to arrow spine.

My intent here is not to criticize anyone but to hopefully prevent newcomers from having unrealistic expectations.  A well-tuned bow with matched arrows shot from a shooting machine that eliminates the human factor and on a day with absolutely no wind will no doubt do really impressive things.  But we aren't usually shooting these bows from shooting machines.  It's us less than perfect humans that are the problem.  Add in less than perfect tuning of the bow/arrow combo and the groups get worse.

So, to try to answer Doublegun's original question, to me acceptable accuracy is when I can put the first arrow through the heart/lung area of a deer at my maximum hunting distance of 20 yards.  Is my bow capable of doing better than that?  Absolutely!  Do I try to do better than that?  Yes.  But that is the day-in, day-out minimum I shoot for.  (Please pardon the pun.)  That's what it takes to get the job done when hunting deer.  Along the way I've made a few shots that just amazed me.  Like focusing on the eye of a sitting rabbit and hitting the rabbit in the head for instance.  I can't do it every time but it sure feels good when I pull it off.  

Doublegun asked is he should be able to get good enough to make a shot on deer at 30 yards by this coming season.  My suggestion would be to practice at 10 yards until he can hit near dead center of that heart/lung area every time.  Then move back to 15 yards and repeat the process.  Then 20 yards and so on.  I'll never try for 30 yards on a live deer for a variety of reasons that include the fact that deer can move incredibly fast as Dave Worden noted.  I believe the closer I am the better and that is the real fun of hunting with a traditional bow for me.

Have fun,
John

[rnharris]

Just started shooting the curve again after 30 years of wheel action and enjoying every minute
if your shooting area allows shoot more at 40 yds
than 20 you will find that your form and release
will have to be good to group arrows at that distance and 20 yds which is more like actual
hunting distance will seem like a piece of cake
enjoy Ralph.

[Doublegun]

Just an update on progress.  I think I am making progress.  I am shooting 4-5, 3-arrow flights giving my back, shoulders and arms a chance to relax between shots.  I shoot pretty much every day - not that tough to do.  I am really concentrating on form and release - I can tell as soon as I release that I have made a good shot.  The challange is the release.  What I have found the most difficult is getting my right elbow back to 6:00 and engaging my back muscles through the draw.

So, what have I accomplished:  Well, knowlege - I think I have a better idea about what I am doing and how to do it correct; my strenght is improving - getting me to full draw more easily and holding it longer for better concentratiion; and, confidence - that I am improving.  Looking back on my comments - the ideal of 30-yard shots is really idealistic.  Maybe on paper, but not prudent for hunting.  Even with my wheelie, 30-yards from the ground would be tough in any decent deer cover.  Still, If I can get my form to the point where I can consistantly group well at 30-yards, then my form should be good enough for humane shots at 10, 15 and 20.

I am really enjoying my recurves and learning to shoot.  Thanks for the advice so far and please keep it coming.

[Brandon Jasper]

I'm still rather new to traditional archery but I am a competition rifle shot from national matches to the tactical marksman competitions.

As has been said shooting a 4" group at 20 yards is more like 20 MOA

Though when it comes to archery right now I’d be happy to get a 4” group  

[Mint Hill Mule]

The first arrow you shoot is truly instinctive. The rest are based on the result of the first one. Trad Archery cannot be compared to other shooting discplines. It is not easy, but a hell of alot of fun.

Mule